Weighed Charges at The Nationals

I did this again the other day

I wanted to increase my load for the cooler weather so I loaded a group of test rounds in groups of three with a .2 difference in them going up. The group left a round hole at the first two tenths and quickly went to an ugly triangle first upside down and then right side up, decreasing back to a roundish hole at one and one half grain beyond where I started. I have done this time after time over the years which took me to weighing a number of years ago. I can shoot ugly enough with great ammo. With random ammo, Luck must play a huge part in one's program ;)
 
greg said:
I like the $14 Lee primer set on top of reloading box. Hope he isn't using Federal Primers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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If your thumbs work ok, the Lee Autoprime is as good as it gets. I have to use he Hornady priming tool since it is finger operated.

I'll bet Mr T has several thousand 205GM's and I'll bet he just threw away a few thousand.
 
My thumb use to work ok

JerrySharrett said:
If your thumbs work ok, the Lee Autoprime is as good as it gets. I have to use he Hornady priming tool since it is finger operated.

I'll bet Mr T has several thousand 205GM's and I'll bet he just threw away a few thousand.
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until I blew it up when about 98 Frderal 209 primers ignited all at the same time in my Lee. I had 3 rd degree burns and muscle seperation but it i healed readily and still works, somewhat. The skin is still not robust.

All my fault. Lee warns everyone not to put more than 10 Federal primers in the hopper at one time. Like many men, I am told, I read the directions only as a last resort.
 
Have we overlooked the imperfection of primers while we are debating whether weighed charges outperform thrown charges?
If there was a way to measure sole primer performance( other than a few photographs that show bigger flames or smaller flames between different brands)I'm convinced that we would see significant variables( in regards to flame height,width,temperature and duration) within a single box of 100 fed 205's. Look at a box full spilled out in a primer tray and tell me that they all even look the same, no way they ignite and burn the same.Weighing exact charges may help the chronograph numbers a little, but the ragged SD's that remain can mainly be attributed to our primers and the process in which they are crushed by a mechanical firing pin blow to initiate ignition.
Weighing charges certainly can't hurt,but does it really help, when primers are the obvious "wild card" in the reloading process?
Joel
 
Nader said:
Have we overlooked the imperfection of primers while we are debating whether weighed charges outperform thrown charges?
If there was a way to measure sole primer performance( other than a few photographs that show bigger flames or smaller flames between different brands)I'm convinced that we would see significant variables( in regards to flame height,width,temperature and duration) within a single box of 100 fed 205's. Look at a box full spilled out in a primer tray and tell me that they all even look the same, no way they ignite and burn the same.Weighing exact charges may help the chronograph numbers a little, but the ragged SD's that remain can mainly be attributed to our primers and the process in which they are crushed by a mechanical firing pin blow to initiate ignition.
Weighing charges certainly can't hurt,but does it really help, when primers are the obvious "wild card" in the reloading process?
Joel
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Have you ever actually done it?

I don't know from SD (seems like a goober fudge-number to me) but I shoot 6 different barrels at under 10fps ES by weighing charges. Up to and including 40gr cases.

al
 
JerrySharrett said:
If your thumbs work ok, the Lee Autoprime is as good as it gets. I have to use he Hornady priming tool since it is finger operated.
Click to expand...

I have operated the lever on the Lee with my fingers for years. What am I missing here?:confused:

Cheers,
Keith
 
Right on!

Nader said:
Have we overlooked the imperfection of primers while we are debating whether weighed charges outperform thrown charges?
If there was a way to measure sole primer performance( other than a few photographs that show bigger flames or smaller flames between different brands)I'm convinced that we would see significant variables( in regards to flame height,width,temperature and duration) within a single box of 100 fed 205's. Look at a box full spilled out in a primer tray and tell me that they all even look the same, no way they ignite and burn the same.Weighing exact charges may help the chronograph numbers a little, but the ragged SD's that remain can mainly be attributed to our primers and the process in which they are crushed by a mechanical firing pin blow to initiate ignition.
Weighing charges certainly can't hurt,but does it really help, when primers are the obvious "wild card" in the reloading process?
Joel
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Joel,

Well said; I agree, 100 percent! :D

During the five years in which I have been shooting in the tunnel, I have tried weighing charges and comparing extreme spreads with those that were thrown. No improvement was ever seen and in many cases, ES was actually greater. :eek:

With my Jones measure, I can consistently keep 9 out of ten of my charges plus or minus .1 grains with the occassional .2 grains over or under. I have found that primers cause most of the variation in muzzle velocity. :cool:

We often hear claims of single digit extreme spreads but I have never been able to achieve that with either the 6PPC or my 6mm Beggs cartridge. About the best I can do is around 18 to 25 fps. I shoot the 6mm Beggs at an average 3360 fps with 66 to 68 grain bullets, the same as the 6PPC; accuracy is excellent with both cartridges even when ES shows as much as 40 fps. Can someone please explain this? :eek:

Gene Beggs
 
Depends on number of shots

Gene Beggs said:
Joel,
We often hear claims of single digit extreme spreads but I have never been able to achieve that with either the 6PPC or my 6mm Beggs cartridge. About the best I can do is around 18 to 25 fps. I shoot the 6mm Beggs at an average 3360 fps with 66 to 68 grain bullets, the same as the 6PPC; accuracy is excellent with both cartridges even when ES shows as much as 40 fps. Can someone please explain this? :eek:

Gene Beggs
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ES increases with number of shots, so maybe those claiming single digit ES are basing it on a few shots, and you are basing yours on many shots?

Cheers,
Keith
 
alinwa said:
Have you ever actually done it?

I don't know from SD (seems like a goober fudge-number to me) but I shoot 6 different barrels at under 10fps ES by weighing charges. Up to and including 40gr cases.

al
Click to expand...

Minimum ES really is the key. That said, I haven't had my chronograph out for years. Several years ago I came to the conclusion that I should just shoot at the load that shoots best and not worry about how fast the bullet is going.:cool:
 
Gene Beggs said:
Joel,

Well said; I agree, 100 percent! :D

During the five years in which I have been shooting in the tunnel, I have tried weighing charges and comparing extreme spreads with those that were thrown. No improvement was ever seen and in many cases, ES was actually greater. :eek:

With my Jones measure, I can consistently keep 9 out of ten of my charges plus or minus .1 grains with the occassional .2 grains over or under. I have found that primers cause most of the variation in muzzle velocity. :cool:

We often hear claims of single digit extreme spreads but I have never been able to achieve that with either the 6PPC or my 6mm Beggs cartridge. About the best I can do is around 18 to 25 fps. I shoot the 6mm Beggs at an average 3360 fps with 66 to 68 grain bullets, the same as the 6PPC; accuracy is excellent with both cartridges even when ES shows as much as 40 fps. Can someone please explain this? :eek:

Gene Beggs
Click to expand...

Yes.....................................

Gene, would you say the Russian Wolf SRM primers are giving "better" performance in the tunnel..? I'm starting to really like them. Just this last weekend I was shooting the Wolf SRM and 205 over my Chrony........... I did see more consistently lower ES's from the Wolf's.... Not real small, but just more consistent mid teen ES's.

Groups were about the same...Darn let-up's!:rolleyes:............ No tunnels where I live....;):(

cale
 
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Cale,
Haven't you noticed that tunnel at Luther? Its over there on the far right side where Scharnhorst shoots.

Donald
 
Gene Beggs said:
Joel,

Well said; I agree, 100 percent! :D

During the five years in which I have been shooting in the tunnel, I have tried weighing charges and comparing extreme spreads with those that were thrown. No improvement was ever seen and in many cases, ES was actually greater. :eek:

With my Jones measure, I can consistently keep 9 out of ten of my charges plus or minus .1 grains with the occassional .2 grains over or under. I have found that primers cause most of the variation in muzzle velocity. :cool:

We often hear claims of single digit extreme spreads but I have never been able to achieve that with either the 6PPC or my 6mm Beggs cartridge. About the best I can do is around 18 to 25 fps. I shoot the 6mm Beggs at an average 3360 fps with 66 to 68 grain bullets, the same as the 6PPC; accuracy is excellent with both cartridges even when ES shows as much as 40 fps. Can someone please explain this? :eek:

Gene Beggs
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Gene, one question, what is your chrono screen separation distance?
 
Fwiw

The long range guys strive for the lowest ES they can get. They weigh their primers and segregate them.
 
Gene, Have you ever tried

Gene Beggs said:
Joel,

Well said; I agree, 100 percent! :D

During the five years in which I have been shooting in the tunnel, I have tried weighing charges and comparing extreme spreads with those that were thrown. No improvement was ever seen and in many cases, ES was actually greater. :eek:

With my Jones measure, I can consistently keep 9 out of ten of my charges plus or minus .1 grains with the occassional .2 grains over or under. I have found that primers cause most of the variation in muzzle velocity. :cool:

We often hear claims of single digit extreme spreads but I have never been able to achieve that with either the 6PPC or my 6mm Beggs cartridge. About the best I can do is around 18 to 25 fps. I shoot the 6mm Beggs at an average 3360 fps with 66 to 68 grain bullets, the same as the 6PPC; accuracy is excellent with both cartridges even when ES shows as much as 40 fps. Can someone please explain this? :eek:

Gene Beggs
Click to expand...



30 Caliber rifles? I am beginning to suspect that there is a great divergence between what smaller bores do and larger bores. After all, all of us can't be wrong, can we? Having said that, I have noted over the years that we often talk past each other on some of this stuff. We know what we see and think the other people are somehow wrong. Perhaps we are not so wrong but simply seeing a different set of results from different equipment.
 
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