Tuners!!!!

Tell you what Mikey, we’ll shoot a 3 gun card on neutral territory, you go hit your ATM machine for , say $2000 to make it fun.
To make it fair, you think about reasonable odds, couple point or so since, hell, I’m just a dumb parrot and all, and you’re, you know, a bonafide world record holder/multiple nation champion.
 
tim said:
Tell you what Mikey, we’ll shoot a 3 gun card on neutral territory, you go hit your ATM machine for , say $2000 to make it fun.
To make it fair, you think about reasonable odds, couple point or so since, hell, I’m just a dumb parrot and all, and you’re, you know, a bonafide world record holder/multiple nation champion.
Click to expand...

UBR Nats are September 11 and 12. I'll bring cash..you do the same. Are you in or out?

I already told you that I no longer shoot rf but you...you shoot both.

In or out? Put up or stfu!

It's easy to make a bet with someone who no longer shoots your game but we both shoot cf. I'm guessing you weasel out of your own bet becuse it doesn't meet your qualifications...Just a hunch.
 
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mwezell said:
UBR Nats are September 11 and 12. I'll bring cash..you do the same. Are you in or out?

I already told you that I no longer shoot rf but you...you shoot both.

In or out? Put up or stfu!

It's easy to make a bet with someone who no longer shoots your game but we both shoot cf. I'm guessing you weasel out of your own bet becuse it doesn't meet your qualifications...Just a hunch.
Click to expand...

This entire conversation has been about rimfire you moron.
No wonder you’re back to trying to sell doublewides in the sticks

Here’s a novel thought. If you no longer shoot rimfire, stay the f..k off rimfire forums.
 
tim said:
This entire conversation has been about rimfire you moron.
No wonder you’re back to trying to sell doublewides in the sticks

Here’s a novel thought. If you no longer shoot rimfire, stay the f..k off rimfire forums.
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I was never worried. I knew you'd back up and PM'S agreed. Again...you talk a lot!
 
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tim said:
Say it with me Mikey.....R I M F I R E.....this was about ...R I M F I R E.
Click to expand...

Say it with Me...chicken!
You're all talk and no facts and no action...even on your own bet. The forum auto corrected what I call people like you! I can't fix that either!

Crawl back under you rock.
 
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I am good wif science.
 

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Tuners

Tony H my BM 3gv barrel does not appear to have ever been stopped. At this setting shoots best untill I have to wait 2-5 min. for a wind condition. Throws next shot high left. Do I turn Harrell 1 full turn in or out and then work back toward Orig. setting, shooting 4 then wait 3 min. and shoot 5th shot to see if group holds? Would 1 turn be enough?
 
oldman said:
Tony H my BM 3gv barrel does not appear to have ever been stopped. At this setting shoots best untill I have to wait 2-5 min. for a wind condition. Throws next shot high left. Do I turn Harrell 1 full turn in or out and then work back toward Orig. setting, shooting 4 then wait 3 min. and shoot 5th shot to see if group holds? Would 1 turn be enough?
Click to expand...

Your problem could be water forming in the barrel. If that is the case no amount of tuning will fix it.

Timing your shots may help.

TKH
 
Water in the barrel

Probably every shooter has an opinion on this. This is mine.

In certain conditions there is no way to stop water from collecting in the barrel.

That water can have an impact on your POI.

When I think this is happening which is most of the time. I try to shoot in a rhythm.

That can be hard to do if you are also dealing with conditions.

Most shooters pick out one or more conditions to break their shots. To stay in rhythm and watch for your condition(s) becomes a real problem.

What I end up doing is when I see my condition I try to get off one or more shots at a sighter before swinging to the scoring bull.

Yes, many times I'm late getting to the target but I feel this is the best method for me.

TKH
 
oldman said:
Tony H my BM 3gv barrel does not appear to have ever been stopped. At this setting shoots best untill I have to wait 2-5 min. for a wind condition. Throws next shot high left. Do I turn Harrell 1 full turn in or out and then work back toward Orig. setting, shooting 4 then wait 3 min. and shoot 5th shot to see if group holds? Would 1 turn be enough?
Click to expand...

Howdy,
This may, or may not, give a bit of help.

http://rimfirebenchrest.com/articles/Calfee-StoppedMuzzle.html

These are a collection of Bill Calfee posts from this site, from years ago. It's lengthy, but you'll see that in one of his posts he talks about waiting a bit of time and shots going high and left. This is a snippet of some of the posts.

"Earlier I described a rifle I'm building and testing......I played with the muzzle device and got it shooting pretty darn good.....but, like I said, the muzzle wasn't stopped......how do I know this?
I set the rifle up in my rest, that will RTB very good......I fouled the bore with a couple of shots, then moved to an aiming bull........shooting conditions were excellent...
I then fired three rounds RTB as quickly as I could.......but, I did not eject the case from the third round.......I lifted the bolt handle, withdrew the bolt enough to pull the case out of the chamber, which broke the seal between the case and the chamber. There is a chimney affect through the bore of a rifle barrel.......I waited a couple of seconds, then pushed the empty case back into the chamber and closed the breech bolt......if I would have ejected the third case and loaded the forth, I'd broken the seal to the bore......
At this point the forth round is standing in the loading block....cool.....
I waited about a minute, then ejected the third case, inserted the "cool" forth case, pushed the rifle forward and fired.....
I ran this procedure 10 times......3 times the forth shot did not enlarge the group.......7 times the forth shot was a flipper, usually high and slightly left....
Based on this test, the muzzle of this little rifle is not stopped.....in other words, as it is, this little rifle will not wait for me......
There's more to the story.....I'll finish when I get some more free time...

*****
I have a new idea that uses the water which forms in the bore after a shot has been fired that looks like it may be the best indicator of all in determining if I have my muzzle stopped.....

*****
I think I've maybe got a new way to tell if our muzzles are stopped....
I've been shooting two rounds, then waiting for a minute, then firing another round.......I'm finding if the muzzle device (some call the thing a tuner) is set correctly, my third round goes in the group.......generally...
If my muzzle device is not set correctly, that third round is a flipper......most of the time.....

*****
Muzzle device folks: Fire two rounds, wait a minute or two. then fire the third.....
Did the third round center the group?
If not, adjust your muzzle device, then repeat the test......
My dear friends, I ain't got all the answers yet, but, when you get your muzzle device set so that the third round centers the group, after waiting a minute or two........you have stopped your muzzle....oh yes you have... "

Read the entire link and perhaps you may find some benefit. These posts are from June to July of 2008. I think this was early on in Bill's figuring out his water in the bore testing. Hope this helps.

Take care,

Greg

Edit: It took me awhile to make my post, I didn't realize Tony had posted prior to me. Between Bill and Tony there's not a whole lot that's not known about shooting.
 
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404tbang said:
Howdy,
This may, or may not, give a bit of help.

http://rimfirebenchrest.com/articles/Calfee-StoppedMuzzle.html

These are a collection of Bill Calfee posts from this site, from years ago. It's lengthy, but you'll see that in one of his posts he talks about waiting a bit of time and shots going high and left. This is a snippet of some of the posts.

"Earlier I described a rifle I'm building and testing......I played with the muzzle device and got it shooting pretty darn good.....but, like I said, the muzzle wasn't stopped......how do I know this?
I set the rifle up in my rest, that will RTB very good......I fouled the bore with a couple of shots, then moved to an aiming bull........shooting conditions were excellent...
I then fired three rounds RTB as quickly as I could.......but, I did not eject the case from the third round.......I lifted the bolt handle, withdrew the bolt enough to pull the case out of the chamber, which broke the seal between the case and the chamber. There is a chimney affect through the bore of a rifle barrel.......I waited a couple of seconds, then pushed the empty case back into the chamber and closed the breech bolt......if I would have ejected the third case and loaded the forth, I'd broken the seal to the bore......
At this point the forth round is standing in the loading block....cool.....
I waited about a minute, then ejected the third case, inserted the "cool" forth case, pushed the rifle forward and fired.....
I ran this procedure 10 times......3 times the forth shot did not enlarge the group.......7 times the forth shot was a flipper, usually high and slightly left....
Based on this test, the muzzle of this little rifle is not stopped.....in other words, as it is, this little rifle will not wait for me......
There's more to the story.....I'll finish when I get some more free time...

*****
I have a new idea that uses the water which forms in the bore after a shot has been fired that looks like it may be the best indicator of all in determining if I have my muzzle stopped.....

*****
I think I've maybe got a new way to tell if our muzzles are stopped....
I've been shooting two rounds, then waiting for a minute, then firing another round.......I'm finding if the muzzle device (some call the thing a tuner) is set correctly, my third round goes in the group.......generally...
If my muzzle device is not set correctly, that third round is a flipper......most of the time.....

*****
Muzzle device folks: Fire two rounds, wait a minute or two. then fire the third.....
Did the third round center the group?
If not, adjust your muzzle device, then repeat the test......
My dear friends, I ain't got all the answers yet, but, when you get your muzzle device set so that the third round centers the group, after waiting a minute or two........you have stopped your muzzle....oh yes you have... "

Read the entire link and perhaps you may find some benefit. These posts are from June to July of 2008. I think this was early on in Bill's figuring out his water in the bore testing. Hope this helps.

Take care,

Greg

Edit: It took me awhile to make my post, I didn't realize Tony had posted prior to me. Between Bill and Tony there's not a whole lot that's not known about shooting.
Click to expand...

Greg,

Thank you for your input.

I'm sure this looks like to many that Bill and I are in disagreement about being able to tune out water in the barrel problems.

I would never bet against Bill just like I would never bet against Tom Brady.

So let me say this. I rarely, if ever changed the tuner settings from where Bill set them.

But I still felt that if there was a delay (those times are variable) in getting off the next round I felt better shooting one or more sighters before going to the scoring target.

Maybe I wasted a lot of ammo but what the hey, you gotta do, what you gotta do.

TKH
 
tuners

Tony regarding your post #117-- My rifle is a BSA Mkiii-- have tried to brk seal and re close action--not much luck--the 2 rds then a 1-2 min wait would really speed up process--would +/- 2 clicks at a time be OK to find stopped setting or 5 clicks at a time be better and to also save using my best match ammo lots? Would my practice ammo be better/ok to use first to find the "stopped" setting?
Do you use a joy-stick (top) rest to save time going from bull to sighter and back and to help when shooting switching conditions? My Bald Eagle rest is the pits doing this even with all the fixes. Need Shadetree??? Sorry for all the questions.
 
oldman said:
Tony regarding your post #117-- My rifle is a BSA Mkiii-- have tried to brk seal and re close action--not much luck--the 2 rds then a 1-2 min wait would really speed up process--would +/- 2 clicks at a time be OK to find stopped setting or 5 clicks at a time be better and to also save using my best match ammo lots? Would my practice ammo be better/ok to use first to find the "stopped" setting?
Do you use a joy-stick (top) rest to save time going from bull to sighter and back and to help when shooting switching conditions? My Bald Eagle rest is the pits doing this even with all the fixes. Need Shadetree??? Sorry for all the questions.
Click to expand...

I am not familiar with the BSA Mark 111 although I have seen a few. Mostly when I shot prone matches in the U.K. .

As for tuning, I'll tell you what little I know.

Not all rifles can be tuned. As a matter of fact very few can.

The rifle has to have proper bedding, proper ignition, action face square with the barrel face and bolt face, the chamber has to be cut straight,

the leade must not be fouled, the crown of the barrel has to be in good shape, and hopefully at the smallest, roundest place in the barrel.

Now I've probably missed other things but this should give you an idea of what I'm trying to say.

If all of these are right tuning is not a hard task. Many say you can turn the tuner a complete turn and not be able to see a significant difference.

That said, I think you should be able to move your tuner at least half a turn at a time to find the sweet spot (s).

Now remember all this comes from a guy that does not claim to know how to tune a rifle. But I can tell when one isn't shooting. When that happens

I look at many places before I think of turning the tuner.

I do not use a joy stick rest. I've tried but they just don't suit me or perhaps I'm too stuck in my ways to adapt.

TKH
 
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Tony, you introduced a topic that almost no-one pay attention in tuning, the front rest type.
Joystick driven vs gear driven...

Stability is key on tuning process, and joystick rests need a much more disciplined approach, that's for sure.
I tend to advise, and because you are not running against time, gear driven front rests could be easier to achieve rifle tuning.
 
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