Tuners Suck

B

Benchrester

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Well, not really. They do have a minor benifit. Probably 2 to 5% so in that manner they could help you win a match.

But tell you what you need to do. I've done this three times with the exact same results. Take a rifle with known good ammo. Doesn't have to be great as long as you know what to expect from it with the tuner off and on (any setting).

Find a shooter that doesn't know what the tuner is really for and let him shoot some baseline groups without the tuner then some more with the tuner (any setting).

Start making major changes to the tuner, record your changes, add weight if you want. Don't tell the shooter what it's for.

Three times (I know not stat relevant) I'e done this. Three time same result. Rifle shoots a little better with the tuner on. Analysis of five five shot groups with the random settings indicate no change in accuracy.

Don't take my word for it go see for yourselves.
 
Me too. Perhaps not much change in a very good barrel with superb ammo but every little bit is needed to win. Sorry, I'll take every little bit of additional accuracy I can squeeze out of a rifle. bob finger
 
have to agree with bill and bob i use a tunner feel it gives me tighter groups
 
It would seem that the bigeest drawback to doing what is stated in the original post is that the experiment relies on the ability of a shooter that does not know what a tuner is for. How good is that shooter? What experience does he have in reading wind and shooting that causes one to trust the results of the experiment to his hand on the gun? Most experienced benchrest shooters, even those who do not use a tuner, know what it is for. I would not trust the results of such an experiment to tell me the accuracy of a given forearm nor how much value the tuner adds to that gun.
 
Benchrester

Benchrester said:
Well, not really. They do have a minor benifit. Probably 2 to 5% so in that manner they could help you win a match.

But tell you what you need to do. I've done this three times with the exact same results. Take a rifle with known good ammo. Doesn't have to be great as long as you know what to expect from it with the tuner off and on (any setting).

Find a shooter that doesn't know what the tuner is really for and let him shoot some baseline groups without the tuner then some more with the tuner (any setting).

Start making major changes to the tuner, record your changes, add weight if you want. Don't tell the shooter what it's for.

Three times (I know not stat relevant) I'e done this. Three time same result. Rifle shoots a little better with the tuner on. Analysis of five five shot groups with the random settings indicate no change in accuracy.

Don't take my word for it go see for yourselves.
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You do realize what you call a "minor benefit" is the reason the rest of us go to a match, Right?

Let me see if I understand. You took 3 people who don't know what a tuner is, so they know nothing about benchrest, and let them shoot, then based your findings on that? So what did you prove?
 
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Look at it this way. If you have a perfect rifle with perfect ammo and aim at the dot with a 3/8" wind push, you should miss every time on an ARA target. Now if that gun sucked, you might hit the 100 once in a while. Which was better?
 
Dan said:
It would seem that the bigeest drawback to doing what is stated in the original post is that the experiment relies on the ability of a shooter that does not know what a tuner is for. How good is that shooter? What experience does he have in reading wind and shooting that causes one to trust the results of the experiment to his hand on the gun? Most experienced benchrest shooters, even those who do not use a tuner, know what it is for. I would not trust the results of such an experiment to tell me the accuracy of a given forearm nor how much value the tuner adds to that gun.
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This is where you're wrong. First of all almost every little club has a .22 contingent who happily shoot their 10-22's or Anschutz's without tuners and there are plenty of skilled shooters. All you need to do is pick one. Reading the wind is a non-issue because you need to conduct this experiment with a littl condition as possible. The shooter, unless an idiot, would have to figure out what the tuner is for, but he has no preconceived ideas of whether it should increase or decrease accuracy depending on the way it's turned. Try it. The tuner does help with vertical to an extent 2-5%, which is enough to justify it given the tight scores in today's matches. It does little or nothing past that no matter where it's moved.

If you believe otherwise, you're wrong.
 
J Pappas said:
You do realize what you call a "minor benefit" is the reason the rest of us go to a match, Right?

Let me see if I understand. You took 3 people who don't know what a tuner is, so they know nothing about benchrest, and let them shoot, then based your findings on that? So what did you prove?
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Two things. One the minor benefit is worth the problem, you just don't need to adjust it. Slap eight ounces of weight on the end of the barrel and you'll do just as well and it will be cheaper. Two, I said three was not statistically relevant so nothing was proven, but then again very little has been proven about a tuner. But you would think at least one would go the other way.
 
DonMatzeder said:
Look at it this way. If you have a perfect rifle with perfect ammo and aim at the dot with a 3/8" wind push, you should miss every time on an ARA target. Now if that gun sucked, you might hit the 100 once in a while. Which was better?
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What?
 
Benchrester what's yo real name so we can look up your stats and see what kind of scores you're shooting? Lots' of folks posting on this forum don't have any idea just how good these rimfires really tuned up with top notch ammo will actually group in ideal conditions, Do they Pappas?:) Tuners do work, no doubt.
 
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benchrester it's not the tuners that sucks it some of the pure nonsense that's been put out there for the past 20 years.
 
Kent Owens said:
Benchrester what's yo real name so we can look up your stats and see what kind of scores you're shooting? Lots' of folks posting on this forum have any idea just how good these rimfires really tuned up with top notch ammo will actually group in ideal conditions, Do they Pappas?:) Tuner work, no doubt.
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I've shot competition but just starte BR so there probably are no meaningful stats. My name is Jury Sukhorukov. I don't shoot in the U.S. but have shot some BR. I've done a little competition shooting. I don't use a tuner. They do nothing for me.
 
Somewhat profound

DonMatzeder said:
Look at it this way. If you have a perfect rifle with perfect ammo and aim at the dot with a 3/8" wind push, you should miss every time on an ARA target. Now if that gun sucked, you might hit the 100 once in a while. Which was better?
Click to expand...

There's a lot more to this concept than one would initially believe.
 
Benchrester said:
I've shot competition but just starte BR so there probably are no meaningful stats. My name is Jury Sukhorukov. I don't shoot in the U.S. but have shot some BR. I've done a little competition shooting. I don't use a tuner. They do nothing for me.
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Hey Jury, I'm Mark Spitz old coach. I wasn't actually around the swim team but I saw you win the silver. Not bad.

Pretty good.
 
does anybody remeber the old movie "the gods must be crazy?"
 
you should not make more trouble here. they work. my first rifle i got for a benchrest rifle was a suhl. it shot ok. when i found a lot of ammo that it shot well i purchased a tuner for it. it went from shooting ok to shooting freaking great when i got it uned right.

the simple and plain truth is a tuner simply will not make bad ammo good. it takes great ammo and makes it shoot even better. do i know how it works? nope. the simple fact is i know it works. all i need to know is that when a rifle is tuned right they shoot better.

you can go on believing they don't help all you want. the masses who have been there and done that know they won't try to get into a match without thier rifle tuned right and a great lot of ammo. to do so is just simply crazy.

you can try to live in your world of non-tuner rifles and think you have a clue.

in the movie the gods must be crazy a guy in a plane dropped a glass bottle out on a group of people who had never seen a plain before. they had never seen anything outside of thier own village. the bottle was nothing to people who had seen and used one for what they ment to be used for. these people had no ideal what the bottle was,how to use it, or what advantages it could give them. they got into fights over it. they hurt each other over it. until it arrived there had been no trouble in the village. one man took it upon himself to go to the end of the earth and throw it off.

you seem to have come from that same village.

the simple fact is they tune the rifle muzzle (is my guess) to were the bullets exit when the muzzle is at almost the same spot everytime.

you yourself admit they give a 2-5% better average. would you want to shoot against somebody you knew had a 2-5% better chance of hiting exactly what they are aiming for over you? i bet you wouldn't. then again even with your saying they improve a rifle 2-5% and then saying they do nothing at all is a oximoron in its own.
 
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wilber,

are you having fun with us and using a different name;)??
 
At least you admit you don't know how they work, and I never said they didn't help. But you say "thier rifle tuned right and a great lot of ammo." I say you're half right. Take the great lot of ammo, stick eight ounces of weight up there around the end of the barrel. Flush is okay, but past the end may be a little better, never touch it, don't adjust it, and you're gonna do just as well. Of course, you're never gonna know it because you want to think you've changed something for the good. That's cool. We've got $250 tuners now because we need to look good when all we need is something that weighs about eight ounces and is capable of being clamped to the barrel.

You ought to try shooting a sniper rifle with a silencer after shooting same rifle without. The accuracy increase in amazing. The purpose is not to increase accuracy.

In Soviet Russia rifle tunes you.
 
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