Tuner weight??
- Thread starter Bro.D
- Start date
jackie schmidt
New member
Bro D
The general consensus is that the weight of the tuner isn't really that criticle.
You just have to move the ligter tuner more in order for it to have the same affect as a heavier tuner.
Of course, when I say "general consensus", that does not include everybody. There are shooters who say that a tuner has to weigh at least 8 ounces to have any affect on a typical Benchrest Barrel.
My tuners weigh about 5 ounces, and work just fine.......jackie
The general consensus is that the weight of the tuner isn't really that criticle.
You just have to move the ligter tuner more in order for it to have the same affect as a heavier tuner.
Of course, when I say "general consensus", that does not include everybody. There are shooters who say that a tuner has to weigh at least 8 ounces to have any affect on a typical Benchrest Barrel.
My tuners weigh about 5 ounces, and work just fine.......jackie
Dusty Stevens
Hollow Point Dispenser
how much does it have to weigh to stop the muzzle jackie?
333smitty
Tomball Gun Club
2oz Tuners
I have two Bukys aluminum 2.5 oz snubber tuners and both of them are very effective.
As Jackie has stated you have to move them a little bit more than a 5 oz+ tuner.
I have two Bukys aluminum 2.5 oz snubber tuners and both of them are very effective.
As Jackie has stated you have to move them a little bit more than a 5 oz+ tuner.
Ok...
give me a ballpark starting point. If I'm completely out of tune, to get thing going in the right direction how much should I turn a 2 oz tuner? 1/2 turn, 3/4 turn??? I know I will have to do some testing to find the capabilities of my particular turner but if you could give me a place to start with a light wt tuner I would appreciate it. Bro.D
give me a ballpark starting point. If I'm completely out of tune, to get thing going in the right direction how much should I turn a 2 oz tuner? 1/2 turn, 3/4 turn??? I know I will have to do some testing to find the capabilities of my particular turner but if you could give me a place to start with a light wt tuner I would appreciate it. Bro.D
jackie schmidt
New member
Bro D
How much you turn the tuner depends on the threads per inch. My tuner features 36 tpi, which means 1/4 turn will give about .007 movement. A 28 tpi gives about .009.
So, a lighter tuner on a courser thread will yield the same "tuning value" as a heavier tuner on a finer thread.
Don't ask me how much, I do not know.
The big step in tuners for centerfire, (this is my opinion), is the advent of the one piece tuner. I like to believe that I had a little to do with this. With a one piece, the entire weight of the tuner is used, in a two piece, just the movable portion is used.
Since weight is such a big consideration when trying to keep a Rifle at 10.5 pounds, the two piece just adds weight that is usless on the Rifle.
At the Bluebonnet this past week end, we had a wide variety of tuners. It is no mistake that the top five in the Two Gun, as well asmany individule agg winners, all use some sort of tuner.......jackie
How much you turn the tuner depends on the threads per inch. My tuner features 36 tpi, which means 1/4 turn will give about .007 movement. A 28 tpi gives about .009.
So, a lighter tuner on a courser thread will yield the same "tuning value" as a heavier tuner on a finer thread.
Don't ask me how much, I do not know.
The big step in tuners for centerfire, (this is my opinion), is the advent of the one piece tuner. I like to believe that I had a little to do with this. With a one piece, the entire weight of the tuner is used, in a two piece, just the movable portion is used.
Since weight is such a big consideration when trying to keep a Rifle at 10.5 pounds, the two piece just adds weight that is usless on the Rifle.
At the Bluebonnet this past week end, we had a wide variety of tuners. It is no mistake that the top five in the Two Gun, as well asmany individule agg winners, all use some sort of tuner.......jackie
jackie schmidt
New member
Pete
No.
We had a good discussion about tuners this past week end. This discussion group included a couple of National Champions, a World Champion, and quite a few shooters who can make two bullets touch.
What you can do with a tuner is make your barrel live up to what ever potential it was born with. No better. The thing is, you can tune the barrel to shoot your favorite load window, plus or minus a tenth or two.
The two Rifles that I shot at the Bluebonnet were my 6PPC Sporter and my 30BR Sporter. Friday before, I "optimized" both barrels with the tuner. I then, with the 6mm, tweeked the charge just enough to keep the Rifle shooting reasonably well. This was no easy task,as the '07 133 still has me somewhat baffled.
I never touched the 30, either by turning the tuner, or with the charge.
I could have done the exact same thing without the tuners being present, but I have now learned that the tuner is an asset worth having. And as you can see by our Region Match results over the past month, I am not alone.
One shooter told me that the only reason that others are using them is because of the success I have had in our Region with my own tuners. Well, isn't that how things happen. Someone will take an idea, implement it into his program, and prove it's worth. (of course, this is not nearly as affective of approach as just talking about it and giving opinions)
.
If it is of any note, several shooters are now loading with Chargemasters, or something similiar. There is no doubt that having every charge exactly the same is a plus. How much of a plus?? I don't know.
I was going to start using one this year, but decided against it. I have convinced myself that the benefit does not out weigh the hassle. However, if someone starts doing really well with weighed charges, I can change my mind in a heartbeat.......jackie
........jackie
No.
We had a good discussion about tuners this past week end. This discussion group included a couple of National Champions, a World Champion, and quite a few shooters who can make two bullets touch.
What you can do with a tuner is make your barrel live up to what ever potential it was born with. No better. The thing is, you can tune the barrel to shoot your favorite load window, plus or minus a tenth or two.
The two Rifles that I shot at the Bluebonnet were my 6PPC Sporter and my 30BR Sporter. Friday before, I "optimized" both barrels with the tuner. I then, with the 6mm, tweeked the charge just enough to keep the Rifle shooting reasonably well. This was no easy task,as the '07 133 still has me somewhat baffled.
I never touched the 30, either by turning the tuner, or with the charge.
I could have done the exact same thing without the tuners being present, but I have now learned that the tuner is an asset worth having. And as you can see by our Region Match results over the past month, I am not alone.
One shooter told me that the only reason that others are using them is because of the success I have had in our Region with my own tuners. Well, isn't that how things happen. Someone will take an idea, implement it into his program, and prove it's worth. (of course, this is not nearly as affective of approach as just talking about it and giving opinions)
.If it is of any note, several shooters are now loading with Chargemasters, or something similiar. There is no doubt that having every charge exactly the same is a plus. How much of a plus?? I don't know.
I was going to start using one this year, but decided against it. I have convinced myself that the benefit does not out weigh the hassle. However, if someone starts doing really well with weighed charges, I can change my mind in a heartbeat.......jackie
........jackie
Pete Wass
Well-known member
Regarding charges
I have a barrel on a rifle right now that seems to forgive quite a bit and I think, considering what I am doing, barrels are one's biggest asset. A friend and great Score Shooter throws his charges, doesn't clean primer pockets or sort bullets. He has had some great barrels that seem to forgive quite a lot. That usually doesn't last forever.
I am still of the mind that it is impossible to make ammo that is TOO GOOD and that even great barrels will perform better with ammo as good as one can make it; exact as it possibly can be. Regarding Chargemasters; throwing close and trickeling with finners is the fastest way to use them.It isn't as fast as just throwing charges but it is not that much slower and for me, the little extra is worth doing.
I will be using tuners in the very near future. I was sure from the beginning of the CF tuner thing they would not only work but ADD to the sport. I believe you and others have demonstrated that quite convincingly.
I have a barrel on a rifle right now that seems to forgive quite a bit and I think, considering what I am doing, barrels are one's biggest asset. A friend and great Score Shooter throws his charges, doesn't clean primer pockets or sort bullets. He has had some great barrels that seem to forgive quite a lot. That usually doesn't last forever.
I am still of the mind that it is impossible to make ammo that is TOO GOOD and that even great barrels will perform better with ammo as good as one can make it; exact as it possibly can be. Regarding Chargemasters; throwing close and trickeling with finners is the fastest way to use them.It isn't as fast as just throwing charges but it is not that much slower and for me, the little extra is worth doing.
I will be using tuners in the very near future. I was sure from the beginning of the CF tuner thing they would not only work but ADD to the sport. I believe you and others have demonstrated that quite convincingly.
333smitty
Tomball Gun Club
Ballpark Starting Point
This is how I use my 2.5 and 5oz aluminum tuners.
Screw it on until it bottoms out.
I then back it out 1.5 to 2 full turns. This gives you the option to move the tuner "IN" or "OUT" if need be.
Place a mark (black marker) on the tuner and the barrel @ the 12 oclock position. This will become you initial referance point.
Snug up the screw and make sure the tuner is tight.
Go to the line and fire 2 shots on the target. If the group looks good try and fill it in with 3 more. Then try two 5 shot groups to verify your tuner setting.
If your group is not acceptable, move the tuner 1 full tune "out" and try 2 more shots. I that doesn't work try going back to your original referance point and move it "in" 1 full turn and shot 2 more and see what happens. Keep moving the tuner until you find a node that your rifle shoots well in. You can also try 1/2 and 1/4 turns. Get the picture. Keep in mind that your rig should be capable of 2's before you try and use a tuner. Hope this helps a little...
I'll share one of my recent tuning experiences.
Recently while testing for the Bluebonnet last Friday my LV/sporter was shooting ok scoring low 2's.
I wanted to step it up a bit for the match so I decided to change my tuner setting to see if I could improve performance. I moved the tuner "in" towards the receiver from 2 oclock to 8 oclock and then shot a fine .184 group. I then put the rifle up for the day.
Sat I did not perform well. I have not mastered heavy winds as of yet and finished 13th in the Sporter Grand Agg.
Sunday the winds died down a bit. I shot ok in the LV 200 placing 9th and knew the rifle was shooting well. After lunch in the LV 100 I scored a 154, 305, 240, 109, and a 181. Which gave me my first teen agg (.1978) in competition.
Did my tuner help? I think so. Tuners give you another option besides powder,
neck tension,seating depth and tuners also enable you to tune your rifle on the firing line during competition.... I like that......
Bro.D;5034me a ballpark starting point. If I'm completely out of tune said:
This is how I use my 2.5 and 5oz aluminum tuners.
Screw it on until it bottoms out.
I then back it out 1.5 to 2 full turns. This gives you the option to move the tuner "IN" or "OUT" if need be.
Place a mark (black marker) on the tuner and the barrel @ the 12 oclock position. This will become you initial referance point.
Snug up the screw and make sure the tuner is tight.
Go to the line and fire 2 shots on the target. If the group looks good try and fill it in with 3 more. Then try two 5 shot groups to verify your tuner setting.
If your group is not acceptable, move the tuner 1 full tune "out" and try 2 more shots. I that doesn't work try going back to your original referance point and move it "in" 1 full turn and shot 2 more and see what happens. Keep moving the tuner until you find a node that your rifle shoots well in. You can also try 1/2 and 1/4 turns. Get the picture. Keep in mind that your rig should be capable of 2's before you try and use a tuner. Hope this helps a little...
I'll share one of my recent tuning experiences.
Recently while testing for the Bluebonnet last Friday my LV/sporter was shooting ok scoring low 2's.
I wanted to step it up a bit for the match so I decided to change my tuner setting to see if I could improve performance. I moved the tuner "in" towards the receiver from 2 oclock to 8 oclock and then shot a fine .184 group. I then put the rifle up for the day.
Sat I did not perform well. I have not mastered heavy winds as of yet and finished 13th in the Sporter Grand Agg.
Sunday the winds died down a bit. I shot ok in the LV 200 placing 9th and knew the rifle was shooting well. After lunch in the LV 100 I scored a 154, 305, 240, 109, and a 181. Which gave me my first teen agg (.1978) in competition.
Did my tuner help? I think so. Tuners give you another option besides powder,
neck tension,seating depth and tuners also enable you to tune your rifle on the firing line during competition.... I like that......
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What is...
the advantage of a tuner for you? Is it that you can change things at the line? Or, is it you can set your powder drop and leave it alone...or...do you feel that the tuner gives you a wider tune window? (all this for a 6ppc) I know they work, I've seen it myself and observed others using it successfully but why do they work for you?
the advantage of a tuner for you? Is it that you can change things at the line? Or, is it you can set your powder drop and leave it alone...or...do you feel that the tuner gives you a wider tune window? (all this for a 6ppc) I know they work, I've seen it myself and observed others using it successfully but why do they work for you?
333smitty
Tomball Gun Club
What is the advantage of a tuner?
What is the advantage of a tuner?
It affords me another venue to tune with besides powder, neck tension, and bullet jam. When all else fails twist your tuner.
Changing your tune after the commence fire has been given. This can only happen if you employ a bullet behavural modification device(tuner) to the end of your barrel.
How do they work? I think they alter barrel vibration in a way the the bullet exits at the same point shot to shot.
Maybe someone smarter than I can explain this phenomenun.
What is the advantage of a tuner?
It affords me another venue to tune with besides powder, neck tension, and bullet jam. When all else fails twist your tuner.
Changing your tune after the commence fire has been given. This can only happen if you employ a bullet behavural modification device(tuner)
to the end of your barrel.How do they work? I think they alter barrel vibration in a way the the bullet exits at the same point shot to shot.
Maybe someone smarter than I can explain this phenomenun.
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A
AVanGorder
Guest
4 ounces is what I use.
For those with experience...
with a tuner that extends over the muzzle, (Jackie style clone) can you predict how much you will have to turn your tuner when the temp changes? Do you ever think, "Well the temp has gone up 5 deg. therefore, I need to turn my tuner out 1/4 turn." Or, "Well the temp has gone up 5 deg and I need to go out .015 based on my tpi." Is it predictable and repeatable or do you seem to be always searching? Thanks for helping me along. Bro.D
with a tuner that extends over the muzzle, (Jackie style clone) can you predict how much you will have to turn your tuner when the temp changes? Do you ever think, "Well the temp has gone up 5 deg. therefore, I need to turn my tuner out 1/4 turn." Or, "Well the temp has gone up 5 deg and I need to go out .015 based on my tpi." Is it predictable and repeatable or do you seem to be always searching? Thanks for helping me along. Bro.D
Pete Wass
Well-known member
Go to the archives
as I recall, Gene Beggs spoke of this some time ago. As I recall, he had more or less worked out an adjustment protocall based on temp.
as I recall, Gene Beggs spoke of this some time ago. As I recall, he had more or less worked out an adjustment protocall based on temp.
333smitty
Tomball Gun Club
Changing your tuner setting
Can you predict how much you will have to turn your tuner when the temp changes?
IMO NO. Too many variables. Tuner weight and material composition, differant threads, altitude, humidity, etc etc.
How much to turn? Ther are many nodes your rifle will shoot well in. You just have to find them whether it be a full turn 1/2 turn or a 1/4 turn. (in or out)
When NOT to adjust your tuner;
Let say you are competing in a match your rifle is in good tune and you scored a .183 on your first target and a .177 on your 2nd target. The temp goes "UP" 5 deg. Do not touch your tuner!!! If you do, you take the chance of detuning your own rifle and scoring 3's. Leave well enough alone...IMO
Your group sizes will tell you when to make a adjustment to your tuner.
Can you predict how much you will have to turn your tuner when the temp changes?
IMO NO. Too many variables. Tuner weight and material composition, differant threads, altitude, humidity, etc etc.
How much to turn? Ther are many nodes your rifle will shoot well in. You just have to find them whether it be a full turn 1/2 turn or a 1/4 turn. (in or out)
When NOT to adjust your tuner;
Let say you are competing in a match your rifle is in good tune and you scored a .183 on your first target and a .177 on your 2nd target. The temp goes "UP" 5 deg. Do not touch your tuner!!! If you do, you take the chance of detuning your own rifle and scoring 3's. Leave well enough alone...IMO
Your group sizes will tell you when to make a adjustment to your tuner.
W
wolf gray
Guest
Tuners
Vic,
Your last sentence pretty much tells the tale.
Best,
Dan
"Where are we going and why am I in this basket?'
Vic,
Your last sentence pretty much tells the tale.
Best,
Dan
"Where are we going and why am I in this basket?'
T
tim in tx
Guest
as far as amount of adjustment
forward of the muzzle with 8 onces of fixed weight and 3 onces of adsjustable weight the adjustments have been very little through out a temp swing of 44-88 degrees,with a 32 tpi thread i/20th of a turn at most which equates to one increment @ 1.150 diameter on this particular tuner.one thing that helped me to remember which way to go was the phrase bullet speeds up then the barrel speeds up to keep it at the tune,moving the weight inward speeds it up by lightening the muzzle,so finally my temp swing extremes vs adjustment formula is pretty much in place and seems to be working well so far, unfortunatly it took me 1200 rds to figure it out . tim in tx
forward of the muzzle with 8 onces of fixed weight and 3 onces of adsjustable weight the adjustments have been very little through out a temp swing of 44-88 degrees,with a 32 tpi thread i/20th of a turn at most which equates to one increment @ 1.150 diameter on this particular tuner.one thing that helped me to remember which way to go was the phrase bullet speeds up then the barrel speeds up to keep it at the tune,moving the weight inward speeds it up by lightening the muzzle,so finally my temp swing extremes vs adjustment formula is pretty much in place and seems to be working well so far, unfortunatly it took me 1200 rds to figure it out . tim in tx
When NOT to adjust your tuner;
Let say you are competing in a match your rifle is in good tune and you scored a .183 on your first target and a .177 on your 2nd target. The temp goes "UP" 5 deg. Do not touch your tuner!!! If you do, you take the chance of detuning your own rifle and scoring 3's. Leave well enough alone...IMO
Your group sizes will tell you when to make a adjustment to your tuner.
Actually, I believe just the opposite. A great way to ensure that you end up in the middle of the pack is to wait until your groups tell you it is time to make a change. For the average competitive rifle (not some howling hummer), that .3 will come unless you develop a tuning strategy (whether with a tuner or powder change or whatever) that allows you make predictive changes before the group blows up.