Threaded Muzzle, Calfee

Bill what method

do you use to measure the the difference in the bore dia. before and after threading?

Jeff
 
Bill Calfee : What brand of barrels do use on your .22 rimfire's? Are they profiled before or after they are rifled?

Hal
 
Jan Sarras

Jan I think if you slug a barrel then thread the muzzle for a tuner and re-slug it you will see for yourself the results.
If your planning on adding a muzzle device to your barrel but haven't bought it already wait about a month and then e-mail me off forum.
Lynn
 
Change in bore

I can not resist one last comment on this thread.

Bill may see the bore size/shape change on the brand of barrels he uses--but the ones I use do not exhibit that change. I have not talked to Bill about it--but I have understood that 1 brand of barrel that he particularly likes is not even lapped before it leaves the maker (which certainly supports why something like slugging would be required on one of those). One must be careful making wide, sweeping conclusions on things in this industry or any other industry for that matter. All is not as absolute as some would lead us to believe.

I have particular concerns when flawed testing methods are used to draw conclusions. The test groups shown for the rimfire barrel do not show any analytical information with them-and even cursory inspection of the targets show what Jackie and I have both said--they prove nothing for either side of the question.

It concerns me when information sharing is partial and only a 1 way interchange. I try to listen, read, understand the viewpoints of all knowing that there are "golden nuggets" to be mined in most all interchanges. I try to respect the other viewpoints--however, the communication method of Kathy is trying my desire to see beyond the surface.

I have had a few barrels returned to me that were damaged by folks trying to "slug" their barrels based on instructions published in PS.

Jim
 
Friends Hal and Fiddler

Friend Hal:

I quote you:

Hal "Bill Calfee : What brand of barrels do use on your .22 rimfire's? Are they profiled before or after they are rifled?"

Hal

Friend Hal, I currently use 16 twist, 4 groove barrels from Lilja, Broughton or Shilen....I don't use 4 groove barrels because they are more accurate than
other numbers of grooves......I have other reasons...

And yes, the barrels are drilled, reamed and rifled, then profiled. AFTER they are profiled, the bores are finished......once the bore is finished, I never cut on a barrel, especially at the crown....the process of threading at the breech end does not cause a problem as the bore opens somewhat.....no problem with that at the breech....

Friend Fiddler:

I quote you:

Fiddler "I'm confused didn't he say he used a damaged barrel to do this test with????"

Friend Fiddler, yes.....the barrel had a bulge about 12 inches from the breech....you could almost turn a bullet sideways.....what is really amazing about the test I run is how GOOD those groups were from that badly damaged barrel......

I picked that defective barrel as I didn't mind ruining it by my test....and it fit the rifle I have under construction.....

Your friend, Bill Calfee
 
Kathy said:
Friend Hal:

I quote you:

Hal "Bill Calfee : What brand of barrels do use on your .22 rimfire's? Are they profiled before or after they are rifled?"

Hal

....I don't use 4 groove barrels because they are more accurate than
other numbers of grooves......I have other reasons...


Your friend, Bill Calfee
Click to expand...

Another riddle or a typo Bill?
 
Maybe we are getting tosomething here.

I have said in the past that there are a lot of shooters who don't "get" centerfire Benchrest. By that I mean that they have no concept of the kind of accuracy that we achieve, on a quite regular basis, in Competition. And, the concept of agging capability escapes them.
Shooting a good group and carrying it around in your wallet is not what Centerfire Benchrest is about. We live in a world of competition where every shot counts. As I tell shooters,I am not interested in the hundreds of bullets that go into the group, I am only interested in the few that do not.
Something caught my attention in what Bill said to Fidler. Quote: "what is really amazing about the test I run is how good those groups were from that badly damaged barrel".
Good?? My goddness, to get a rifle, to shoot much worse, you would darned near have to delibertly aim off every shot.
Maybe I am not up to snuff on what is considered acceptable in the Rim Fire World. But I have a feeling that even the most rabid supporters of Bill in that field of shooting would see that he started a test with flawed equipment, and that invalidates any so called conclusions.
Good Grief. This is, after all, Benchrest.com........jackie
 
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Jackie

The groups that were shown would not be acceptable in the rimfire world. When I shoot group to test ammo, I like to see 5 shots into one hole as do the Centerfire guys. I shoot for score and shoot groups in selecting ammo. If I'm getting groups like that, it's telling me to keep testing different lot #'s till I find what the gun likes the best and shoots one hole groups. Keeping in mind that I may have to tweek my tuner 1 or 2 clicks to fine tune. I wasn't trying to make Bill look foolish, but was in question as to why use a barrel like that to try and run a test with. I would think that an ave. barrel would be used to try and make his point one way or another. Testing with the barrel he used, I would assume would be showing somewhat flawed results.
 
Maybe I read this differently????

"....I don't use 4 groove barrels because they are more accurate than
other numbers of grooves......I have other reasons..."


Your friend, Bill Calfee


............I read this as "I use 4 groove barrels because they ARE ACCUARATE and for "other reasons" One reason that is obvious to me is that since Bill touts "slugging" barrels ,having the lands exactly opposite of each other as in a 2,4,or 6 groove barrels, one will get better land and groove measurements as opposed to a 3 groove arrangement. Centainly in Rimfire he has a command of the particulars to base his barrel choice to those that are 4 groove.In each of his posting "somethings" of value are gleaned if one looks at the posts objectively.........JMHO
................. Be well, shoot well.......... Jan
 
Bill
Would it work to counter sink the crown say 1 1/4" and thread the last 1" of the barrel?

Hal
 
This thread has out lived it usefullness a few pages ago. There is too much guessing and what ifs. There is no real scientific method that was done to make any conclusions.
 
Jan said:
"....I don't use 4 groove barrels because they are more accurate than
other numbers of grooves......I have other reasons..."


Your friend, Bill Calfee


............I read this as "I use 4 groove barrels because they ARE ACCUARATE and for "other reasons" One reason that is obvious to me is that since Bill touts "slugging" barrels ,having the lands exactly opposite of each other as in a 2,4,or 6 groove barrels, one will get better land and groove measurements as opposed to a 3 groove arrangement. Centainly in Rimfire he has a command of the particulars to base his barrel choice to those that are 4 groove.In each of his posting "somethings" of value are gleaned if one looks at the posts objectively.........JMHO
................. Be well, shoot well.......... Jan
Click to expand...

Jan:

I see your point. I have a terrible time reading Mr. Calfee's writings, either here or in PS, because of his writing style. This was one of those occasions -- I thought it might have been a typo. In addition to your interpretation, another interpretation of his statement would be that he doesn't use 4 groove barrels, in spite of the fact that he believes they are more accurate . . . for other reasons. That made no sense to me, so I thought what he wrote was a typo.

Take care.

Mike
 
Well since we're all into the semantic dissection......
If 4 groove were demonstrably more accurate - no one would be using anything else. From this I gather that the choice of 4 groove instead of some other would then have to be based upon "other reasons" - and the way Bill typed it would be correct. He does not choose them because of an accuracy advantage (there not being one), but rather for some other reason - not as yet disclosed in this thread.

Yeah jackie..there is that too.
 
I have some conflict with the statement that to turn or otherwise alter the crown area WILL (as stated) cause inaccuracy, I shall debunk that statement.
I shoot the Palma Game, We use Krieger barrels (Cut Rifling) and we turn the crown area back about 1 & 1/2" to apply the front sight Ladder, now those guns will shoot before and after the cut to the crown as i have tested same, and with the correct load and the Sierra 155 bullets will shoot into .400 for ten shots @100 and no changes before or after cutting. The accuracy is not bench quality but that is the best most will accomplish out of the sling Prone and no added support, Iron Sights.

Never Squat with yer Spurs on!!!
Clarence

Edited to add the Iron Sights statement
 
If memory serves me right, Mr. Calfee has stated on the rimfire board that the 4 groove shoots better in the wind and overall in most conditions from what he has tested.

Bobby
 
Bobby T. said:
If memory serves me right, Mr. Calfee has stated on the rimfire board that the 4 groove shoots better in the wind and overall in most conditions from what he has tested.

Bobby
Click to expand...
I seem to remember a thread where that might have come up. I know I've sort of gigged him and a few others about how a match grade 16 groove Microgroove has not been tested. After all, the extremely shallow rifling does much less deformation of the bullet than any of the more common styles. :D
 
How in D woild - - -

Bobby T. said:
If memory serves me right, Mr. Calfee has stated on the rimfire board that the 4 groove shoots better in the wind and overall in most conditions from what he has tested.

Bobby
Click to expand...

Would the number of groves in a barrel affect how a bullet "flies" in the wind?
 
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