Thank you Gordon E, Calfee

K

Kathy

Guest
My friend Gordon:

The brittle and fudge are simply killer! I mean killer!

Thank you for the "weighted" Hall firing pin spring retainers.....I am going to call in some of my Halls and install them.....

Gordon, friend Starik has started a fine thread about what makes a barrel less wind sensitive.....a killer thread...but it is only part of the story.

I do not like to comment on other folks threads, especially when I want to change the flow.....

Gordon, a rimfire rifle barrel with a twist rate of between 16 and 17, with a rifling pattern that does not compress the bullet any more than a 4 groove barrel with a 65x35 groove to land ratio, and, is no larger in the grooves than .2220" at the crown, and, with a bore of no smaller than .2170", and, with the crown at the absolutely tightest place in the bore, WILL NOT BE WIND SENSITIVE!.......... Gordon, let me repeat this: WILL NOT BE WIND SENSITIVE.

But friend Gordon, there are so many killer barrels being made at this time just like I have described........but.....there is a more important factor that causes a rifle to be less wind sensitive........Would any of you folks on this fine forum care to venture a guess as to what that is?

I will give you a hint.........wax...

Friend Gordon, thank you again my friend, and thank your wife...Happy New Year.....


Your friend, Bill Calfee
 
Bill You are more than welcome. Hope you had a great Christmas and all the best in the New Year. I can never thank you enough.

A couple of friends from north Carolina brought to my attention that the last shipment of Eley has less lube. We don't get as much on the barrel breech and bolt face. This last shipment of Eley flat out shoots. Thats my guess.
 
Hijacked Package

Gordon and Sheri,
Thanks for the fudge and peanut brittle, it is Great. I sent Gordon and email yesterday thanking him and relating how my package had been “hijacked” at the post office. My Post Master, Tommy Cravey (a rim fire shooter) called Friday morning telling me he could see inside a package that had been torn on one corner, and he could see cake and cookies, and I need to come down and look at it. After arriving, he inspected and ate some of the contents, pronouncing it to be the best he had ever had – he’s experienced in checking packages. Then up drives Phil Deese – known as (pass the chicken, that the best I’ve ever had), now you can replace chicken with peanut brittle. Those two worked my little pile of candy over like two professionals.

Helping with Bill’s question, I’ll add to the wax, consistency of application, lube temperature, and the depth the bullet is put into the lube bath – there are more answers.

I hope you all had a Great Christmas, remembering the reason for the season, and we all have a Great New Year. I know two fellows who will need to go on a diet or get their sugar checked.
Bob Collins
 
Thinking out loud

Thanking out loud:

Friend Gordon, thanks again......

Thinking out loud about wind sensitivity:

The first Eley EPS had a reputation of being extremely accurate but wind sensitive.......... I worked with Eley and got them to produce the Round Nose bullet......... Eley sent me the first test lots of the new Round Nose bullet...... The first tests I ran, even before any pure accuracy tests, was to see if they were less sensitive to the wind..... They were....... I sent those tests to Eley....

Ok, still thinking out loud; I was shooting the exact same barrels, nothing was changed about the test guns........ which means there is a factor(s), besides the physical make-up of the barrel, that makes some guns more wind sensitive than others.....

Your friend, Bill Calfee
 
Kathy said:
Thanking out loud:
Ok, still thinking out loud; I was shooting the exact same barrels, nothing was changed about the test guns........ which means there is a factor(s), besides the physical make-up of the barrel, that makes some guns more wind sensitive than others.....

Your friend, Bill Calfee
Click to expand...

Bill,
Any chance you compared the muzzle and target velocities?

I keep thinking that there is any number of factors that could affect wind sensitivity. But, bottom line, they all add up to changes in induced lift/drag which would be the only way the wind would increase its grip. This includes increased velocity which reduces the time exposed to the wind linearly but increases drag exponentially.

Mark
 
Twist rate is a huge determinate of apparant wind sensivity IMO. Bullets shot from a faster twist barrel will curve more in it's flight to the target. An anaology would be a baseball pitchers curve ball. The more rotation the more movement. If shooting in a certain wind speed, a let up or a slight gust will cause the POI to shift more than a slower twist.
 
burtona said:
Twist rate is a huge determinate of apparant wind sensivity IMO. Bullets shot from a faster twist barrel will curve more in it's flight to the target. An anaology would be a baseball pitchers curve ball. The more rotation the more movement. If shooting in a certain wind speed, a let up or a slight gust will cause the POI to shift more than a slower twist.
Click to expand...

Interesting trade off, but the spin on a bullet is more like a football than a curveball. The spin would increase the lift slightly, and therefore drag, but that might be offset by the increased gyroscopic effect reducing any yaw sooner.

Mark
 
Wilbur,
You may have to have prior experience like Tommy and I with "Search and Destory" missions...............:D:D:D:D I'm going to have Tommy inspect more packages going to Bob for any of that contraban. That was by far the best peanut brittle I have ever had. I thought only Georgia Boys knew how to make peanut brittle.
 
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More thinking out loud

More thinking out loud:

If I completely fit a barrel, I mean everything, except for finishing the chamber, in other words, the chamber is "as reamed", then test it, then, tear the rifle back down, hobb and polish the chamber, in other words, properly finish the chamber, the "as reamed" chambered barrel will be extremely wind sensitive. As soon as I properly finish the chamber, the barrel is no longer wind sensitive.

The twist rate of the barrel has not changed, nor the crown, nor the bore nor groove diameters......

Why does a barrel with a properly finished chamber become less wind sensitive than the same barrel with an "as reamed" or non finished chamber?

There is a reason.

Your friend, Bill Calfee
 
Bill
Im glad you enjoyed it. When you're ready for more let me know

Bob
Its my pleasure. When you ready for more just let me know

Phil
I may have to take you up on your offer. Is it warm where you live? Also is there fishing?

Wilbur I need your address

Thanks Shari
 
Kathy said:
More thinking out loud:

If I completely fit a barrel, I mean everything, except for finishing the chamber, in other words, the chamber is "as reamed", then test it, then, tear the rifle back down, hobb and polish the chamber, in other words, properly finish the chamber, the "as reamed" chambered barrel will be extremely wind sensitive. As soon as I properly finish the chamber, the barrel is no longer wind sensitive.

The twist rate of the barrel has not changed, nor the crown, nor the bore nor groove diameters......

Why does a barrel with a properly finished chamber become less wind sensitive than the same barrel with an "as reamed" or non finished chamber?

There is a reason.

Your friend, Bill Calfee
Click to expand...

Calfee pixie dust has been added.

Bill for the uninformed why don't you let us know what you mean by "Hobb". I mean just because you and I understand all this does not mean everyone does and this is not a common term.
 
Bill
When you finish the chamber. It is smooth and the Hobb removes all the tool marks on the leade angle. Giving the bullet a smoother start in flight.
 
Kathy said:
Gordon, a rimfire rifle barrel with a twist rate of between 16 and 17, with a rifling pattern that does not compress the bullet any more than a 4 groove barrel with a 65x35 groove to land ratio, and, is no larger in the grooves than .2220" at the crown, and, with a bore of no smaller than .2170", and, with the crown at the absolutely tightest place in the bore,
Click to expand...
Has anyone ever heard of a BR grade barrel being attempted using something like the Marlin microgroove rifling? IE Lots of very shallow lands. But to BR specs as opposed to mass produced production rifle tolerances.

Kathy said:
there is a more important factor that causes a rifle to be less wind sensitive........Would any of you folks on this fine forum care to venture a guess as to what that is?

I will give you a hint.........wax...
Your friend, Bill Calfee
Click to expand...
Yep too much of it is not a good thing. Especially on the bullet nose.
 
Friends Beau And Gordon E

Friend Beau:

I agree, I have used the term "hobb" and I need to explain it....

Friend Gordon E:

You are correct......

I have asked Donna Brown and Brad541 if they would post a picture of my hobb on this thread....If you two can do this, I thank you up front...bc

The word "hobb" is probably incorrect as someone on this forum pointed out a couple of months ago...... the correct term should be "burnishing"

A burnishing, chambering reamer is fluted......

Obviously a burnisher for the leade of the chamber can't be fluted, but has to be solid.....so I call it a "hobb"......no other reason..

When the picture is posted, what you will see is my piloted hobb....the hobb is extremely hard, it has not been drawn....Rockwell "C" probably 68 or so.

The pilot does not guide the hobb.....I don't want it to.....I want the hobb to follow the leade, not the top of the lands......so the pilot is .004" under bore size....I just use it as a safety device.....it has no other function....

The hobb must be used before any other chamber finishing is done.

I intend to write an article on my chambering methods for Precision Shooting in the future, such as they are.........I will detail how I use the hobb then.

Your friend, Bill Calfee
 
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Bill Calfee,
Thanks for sharing your methods on this forum. I always enjoy reading them, and there's no question on the results you get from the methods you use. You build some great rimfire rifles, and I like reading about how you do that. I look forward to your article on chambers and how you "hobb" 'em and polish them, anything on rimfire is interesting reading. Hope you had a nice Christmas and wish you a Happy New Year! Take care.
 
Hobb.jpg
 
There ya go Bill.

I would like to add something here if I may.

I spoke to Bill Calfee a few days ago on the phone. We talked and talked about dang near everything. Bill is just a walking gun book of knowledge. He is also a down-to-earth type of guy. I also gave Bill some insight on the people who seem to post crap out of the blue on his threads and to just let it run in one ear and out the other. Some of those people obviously don't know the real Bill Calfee. I can tell you that I have spoken to none better or smarter when it comes to being a super nice gentleman and a wealth of firearm knowledge that contributes tons of info to this site.

It was a honor to speak to you Bill. I mean that.

Happy New Year Bill!

Brad
 
Friend Brad541

Friend Brad:

I too enjoyed out talk the other day....and thank you, and Donna, for doing the pictures......

Brad, I learned a long time ago not to make pronouncements of fact on this fine forum....it usually winds up starting an arguement......I find it works out better to get folks thinking by asking questions....

More thinking outloud about wind sensitivity:

If a rimfire target rifle barrel is produced with the requirements I listed at the start of this thread, there is absolutely no difference in wind sensitivity between a 16 twist barrel or a 17 twist barrel.

If 16 twist barrels were less wind sensitive, there would be nothing but 16 twist barrels produced, as folks want to win and they will use the best.

The length of the barrel has no bearing, within reason, on how wind sensitive a gun is. If it was determined that a 23 inch long barrel was absolutley the least wind sensitive, there would be nothing but 23 inch barrels.

The velocity of the bullet, as long it is between about 1040 and 1080 FPS has absolutely no bearing on the wind sensitivity of the gun. If it were determined that a 1040 velocity produced the least wind sensitivity, there would be nothing but 1040 velocity bullets produced, as folks want to win.

A gun being wind sensitive is not a product of the physical properities of the barrel, as long as the barrel is made like I described in the opening of this thread.

So what does cause the wind sensitivity to vary in some guns, assuming they all used barrels manufactured as I described at the start of this thread?

I will repeat my hint, and I know this is going to sound too simple..........."wax"

Your friend, Bill calfee
 
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