Testing vs tunning vs poa vs poi

[B. Harvey]

I would guess most, as in 90%, struggle in this game due to various factors.
I struggled for a what seemed like an eternal 2 years, with 2 different rifles. The last year was spent struggling with the same rifle, but progress has finally been made. It seemed I was doomed to shoot in the high 730's to low 740's, all the while trying various ammo, rests, scopes etc. Then one day before a match I finally achieved (the elusive) tune on the rifle. My results very quickly turned and I have been scoring much better (high 740's) my last several matches.

I had read in many posts, and talked with some of the top shooters and ALL agreed that when you achieve tune, your rifle will shoot much better, and it will shoot more ammo accurately. This fact cannot be overstated! My rifle is so much easier to shoot, shoots way more consistent, and is so much easier to score with it is unreal!

If you look at my scores, the difference is dramatic and happened like turning on a light switch. There was no steady improvement with my scores coming up, it was 740 one day, and the next three days was 748, with the same ammo.

I was almost to the point of quitting this game. After finding the tune, I talked with one of the sports great shooters, and he told me he shot his most winning rifle, for 2 YEARS, before getting it tuned.

You are not alone in the quest for getting your rifle shooting better.

 

[crb]

Joe,
I'm the guy you are looking for. With my own homebuilt junk I do good to score mid 230's while David and Jody are over there shooting 248 249 [ Brian hadn't found his gun's tune at the last RF match I shot so he was only shooting low to mid 240's ]. I have had some seconds and thirds with my 30BR in very competitive club CF BR 100/200 matches [ only the score matches !!! I can't shoot a good group for the life of me ].

The question I ask myself is why can't I duplicate this success in RF ?? Is CF that much easier to shoot ? Is it my homebuilt junk ?? Is it not having a good grasp of the wind's more dramatic effect on a RF ? If that's the case why can I reel off high 240's [ 25 yds ] with my airgun ??!?!? Hmmm.

Last Sunday Brian and I were at Gold City. I wanted to shoot his Hall because I was/am thinking of ordering a custom action. I had also repaired some crown damage on my 40x and wanted to see if I had discovered it's problem. Nope, still junk.

I move over to Brian's rifle with some of my own 1 machine, 1069 EPS. This isn't the ammo that the rifle is 'tuned for'. Blam 10's and X's. No thrown shots. No surprise 7's . Any slightly out shot would be duplicated on a quick follow up shot showing me that I am missing the condition change. Brian then sat down and shot a string of pinwheels with this ammo.

I only wish we had set his rifle on my rest and bag to see how it did. I am sure he would have liked to have tried that experiment.

I decided to give my 40x one last effort before ordering a Hall and a new bbl [ My 40x has a superb bolt lift and closing which is why I would like to be able to shoot competitively with it ]. I slugged the bore on one of my bbls and moved the crown back about 1/2" and fitted a Fudd tuner I borrowed from Brian. Blam, dramatic improvement and I still have a good bit of tuner testing to do. I can't wait for the next match !

Try to get some time behind a good rifle. It will reenergize your enthusiasm for rimfires.

Ray
----------

Epic ends

 

[jGEE]

Very nicely said

The Difference

After all these years of study
Of many different games
I can’t help but ponder
The difference between first and second place
The crowds don’t favor losers
But bare with me and see
That next best is no loser
And neither number three
For who can say for sure
What makes the first man win
Was it his heart, his drive
His knowledge
Or his concentration pure
First place may be the loser
In the game of life
If he never shared his knowledge
Nor lent a helping hand
Never reached back with help
For the second man
It would have broken his concentration
But gained a solid friend
So go on charge ahead
Win the day you see
All my respect goes
To the man
Who’s helping number three
So thanks my friend
You did not win
Because you were helping me
thanks

Earl Schrum aka gambler

Very nicely said Mr Schrum.

 

[gambler]

quote[First place may be the loser
In the game of life
If he never shared his knowledge
Nor lent a helping hand] end quote

i felt this line was essential to the meaning of the poem, no offence meant
to any competitors...if i could shoot my gun as well as my mouth i'd be a winner to
it takes a special type of person to tackle all the variables of rimfire and come out a winner....there must be a lot of marines in this game

now back to the subject....it is a good one

 

[jGEE]

<snip>Generally speaking, the top 5 shooters didn't get there casually. They spend their days and nights working toward improvement.<snip>

Mr. Wilbur you shoulda been a diplomat for the state department- you could just said "shut up and shoot", lol.
Hey your right to! joe

 

[mr. nobody]

i spent some of today out working on improvement!! i used some things james pappas had told me to try and it sure helped out alot!!! i also put a small bungy cord on my rest that allows the rifle to recoil freely but strong enough to pull it back to battery again. i did shoot 100-200 points higher on the ara target with this set up.

i have seen several top shooters use the bungy cord hooked to the rest and the trigger guard and figured i'd give it a try as well. i had to rezero the rifle because when i went from the way i was shooting to what james told me to try the rifle was fitting to the left to far.

thanks to everybody who has given ideals. i hope to do better in our last match next month. i'll be practicing alot more till then for sure.

 

[gambler]

i used a longer bungee and hooked it to the front legs of the rest and wrapped it across the butt pad..never thought of the trigger guard, but
i don't THINK MUCH..that's hard work

 

[Fred J]

Just right

I've tried that trick, and found if the bunge cord is too short. it can cause you POA to be off due to vibration when the stock hits the return stop. Experiment until you find the correct combination.

 

[tim]

Pappas said, why try to argue? I'm not arguing, I'm simply stating fact. harrydeneen may be the smartest and best rimfire shooter around but he is making the same mistake many other shooters make in this forum. The idea a "pattern" of 4 and 1, or 3 and 2, has more meaning than the space between farthest shots is just plain wrong. This 4/1 or 3/2 pattern exists in nearly all (maybe 95%) of the 5 shot groups you shoot. It is very hard to see in real small groups, but it's there.

harrydeneen, or anybody else, is wasting their time trying to draw conclusions about accuracy of rifle or ammo from a "pattern" in the group. Then there is that idea of calling each shot that lands "out of the group" as a "poi change" All this will give you about the same amount of information as you get from one shot, or a single group - which is just about ZERO!

Again I'm not putting myself up as smarter, or a better shooter, or anything else in this forum. I'm simply trying to explain some simple laws of nature that you might consider as you try to wring more accuracy out of gun or ammo.

Cecil, trust me, you don't know when to shut up. It runs about 98% of the time. You have a world class shooter trying to give some guidence from his perspective and we have you, arguing to the death, in spite of the fact that apparantly you shoot only the "keyboard". PLEASE, STF up.

 

[mr. nobody]

tim,
i have to agree. he needs to shut up and let the man who shoots in matches and wins talk. he's simply getting in the way.

pacecil shut up and let people who shoot tell us things!!! you are not helping anybody at all!!! shut the hell up!!!!

 

[Beau]

Cecil, trust me, you don't know when to shut up. It runs about 98% of the time. You have a world class shooter trying to give some guidence from his perspective and we have you, arguing to the death, in spite of the fact that apparantly you shoot only the "keyboard". PLEASE, STF up.

Not only the keyboard. Give credit where it's due. He did shoot the KY state tournament this year.

 

[HuskerP7M8]

Tim & mr. nobody,

It appears to me that you guys have just caused more of a disruption to this thread than pacecil has and if everyone would carefully read pacecil’s posts over the years….you’d find more good info from him than the majority of contributors to this forum.

Harry,
I apologize for cluttering up this thread just as Tim & mr. nobody have done and I will happily delete this post if you wish….just let me know.

“Landy”
Larry Landercasper

 

[harrydeneen]

Brian

That is a great example,, if you notice all your shots are good ones and proably will be fine at 50 yrds.. But notice how they wonder just a little.. Thats proably ammo doing that.. If you can shoot all shots at almost exact poi then you will have a hummer combination... One or two might not be perfect but sometimes thats the shooter or his set up.. Mr harvey. I think i know who you are talking about when you say a good shooter had not had his gun tuned exactly! Joe.. When the tuner is right all that does is make the barrel dead.. The deader the better.. Is deader a word?..it will help your ammo shoot to its limit providing your barrel and all other little things are right.. Harry..

 

[harrydeneen]

Landy

Ia'm sure that we all phrase our words sometimes that makes others mad because they are taken in the wrong way or misunderstood..will try to answer the other questions when i can.. Harry..

 

[Madrox]

callfee dont shoot match's and you listen to him

Doesn't but has. Calfee probably has more shooting experience than the majority of people actively shooting rimfire these days.

 

[Brian_K]

That is a great example,, if you notice all your shots are good ones and proably will be fine at 50 yrds.. But notice how they wonder just a little.. Thats proably ammo doing that.. If you can shoot all shots at almost exact poi then you will have a hummer combination... One or two might not be perfect but sometimes thats the shooter or his set up.. Harry..

Thanks for that Harry. I’m going to batch the rim thickness on this lot of Team and see if that helps. I’m off to Eley on the 22nd September to select some ammo for this rifle so hopefully I’ll be able to sort out those odd wonders.

Brian

 

[mr. nobody]

Tim & mr. nobody,

It appears to me that you guys have just caused more of a disruption to this thread than pacecil has and if everyone would carefully read pacecil’s posts over the years….you’d find more good info from him than the majority of contributors to this forum.

Harry,
I apologize for cluttering up this thread just as Tim & mr. nobody have done and I will happily delete this post if you wish….just let me know.

“Landy”
Larry Landercasper

this is my first year shooting in rimfire matches. i'm not giving input. i'm trying to draw off of the best shooters for help. i have tried to explain how i do things so other shooters who have been in the game can help me, not trying to tell anybody how they should do anything. so far i have learned alot of what i was doing wrong from james pappas, dan killough and harry. i'm hoping they will keep trying to help all us new to the game and the guys that want to fuss can move on. all us new guys are greatful that the best shooters are willing to help us out if they can.

i know i shot better yesterday using what each of them have said. i have stopped pinching the trigger now. i also have figured out how to test ammo and how the tuner needs to be tuned. after retuning and not pinching the trigger anymore i had to rezero the rifle cuase it was off to the left some. in the higher winds we had here yesterday i managed to shoot in the 2000's and a few 2100's just using what i have learned from the better shooters.

to me it has paid off to listen to them and try what they have said. now i have to try to spend more time at the range when my job allows me to.

 

[J Pappas]

George and Madrox

yes i know he did shoot.matter of fact he shot at my home range more than once...you miss't the () in my fist post.
sarcasum is lost on the computer i know this but still try it from time to time.

George, I know you are an old hillbilly cause Calfee said you were. But the more of your post I read the smarter you get. Madrox, you are right, too. Bill probably has more experience shooting rimfire than anyone in the game. Too bad he is not able to travel and shoot as he use to. He is a great rimfire shooter.

 

[mr. nobody]

George, I know you are an old hillbilly cause Calfee said you were. But the more of your post I read the smarter you get. Madrox, you are right, too. Bill probably has more experience shooting rimfire than anyone in the game. Too bad he is not able to travel and shoot as he use to. He is a great rimfire shooter.

i shoot with george as well. he's not the only hillbilly there when i show up!! i kinda figured you'd know i was a hillbilly when we talked on the phone james!! my voice and draw kinda gives that one away doesn't it? hey us hicks enjoy shooting as much if not more than most do. we hunt and shoot in matches!!!

 

[J Pappas]

i shoot with george as well. he's not the only hillbilly there when i show up!! i kinda figured you'd know i was a hillbilly when we talked on the phone james!! my voice and draw kinda gives that one away doesn't it? hey us hicks enjoy shooting as much if not more than most do. we hunt and shoot in matches!!!

Never was a doubt. I learned a long time ago that when a hillbilly came to Tx to shoot a match he didn't drive 14 hours or more to come in second place.