Testing vs tunning vs poa vs poi

H

harrydeneen

Guest
It seems that there is a good interest in how to test ammo.. I dont want to butt in on mr nobody"s post but i think we can cover alot more than testing ammo.. There seems to be alot of interest in tunning, testing ect, wilbur has made a great example of poi and poa.. Proably by mistake though!:d:d... This could take a while so lets try to help each other if we can! Is this ok mr nobody . ? Harry..
 
harry,

this is great. there are alot of people who want to know how you guys shooting high scores test and tune. this is my first year of doing this and i will take all the help i can get from you guys who score well. thanks alot. i'm all ears(or eye's on here)!!!!
 
shooting in match

Picking a condition--flags--probe i find most helpful. Sighting gun on this condition and staying with it no matter what. Ishoot free recoil and shoot heads upon the probe. My score has ben much better. Boer
 
testing, tuning and etc.

In a perfect world, the best way to test and tune is to shoot first indoors. You can get that tuner just right for that lot number and shoot bugholes.....groups in the zeroes. Then you need to test outside and see how the ammo holds up to the wind. Some will do this better than others. This may seem time consuming and you want to call the distributor asap before all the good stuff is bought up, but if possible test both ways.

I have an older 36 power Leupold scope and a Leupold 50 foot adapter which screws onto the front of the scope and you can really see what you are doing indoors. I test at 33yds. and with the adapter, you can hold anywhere you want on the I/R 50 dot.
 
thought

I dont shoot comp But I do have good shooting guns I have found in the short time i been in this game that good ammo shoots good in all guns Dont over tighten the forarm in the rest It seem to me the good ammo is gone in a flash You have poeple testing an word of mouth its gone what work for me on my guns is to stock tune then add weight to the tunner till you find what it likes then start at 200 10 up 10 down till you find it then keep track density alitude. i think it takes 2 lots and speed Mine is 1058 and 1071 my 2 cents and this all came from all of you last 6 months
 
On the way to the Crawfish on Friday I will stop at Montezuma to test all the ammo Bob has in stock.
I will start my testing with a lot I know my rifle likes. Once it settles down and I have Standard to shoot at I will start testing.
I will shoot at least 10 shots of a test lot sometimes ignoring the 1st 5 shots.
I will test maybe 5 lots making notes on how well I thought each one shot.
I will then thoroughly clean the rifle and shoot my ‘Standard” lot until the rifle settles down then test another 5 lots. (If Available)
I will again thoroughly clean my rifle and review my notes.
By now I have an Idea of which lots showed some promise.
I will then take theses lots in order and shot somewhere between 20 and 30 shoots with each lot. If One looks real good and but throws a shot I will make a note of this.
I clean between all these test lots.
By now I will have maybe 2 or 3 lots that look good. If I still have time I will try the lot that threw one. With this lot I might change my tuner a couple of clicks to see if I can get rid of the dropped shot. In the past I have played with my tuner and opened up a group a little but did not have any more dropped shoots which turned out to be a killer lot.

By now I will have a couple of lots to test further at the match on Saturday & Sunday.
 
I do like to start

Out indoors as joe says, but this proably is not possible for most shooters.. And then i move outdoors for the final test. I dont pay much attention to what is on the box for fps because every gun is going to shoot at diffrent speeds... You will gain about ten fps for every inch of a shorter barrel.. The lot that i have been shooting is 1069 on the box.. The barrel is 24 inches... Since we have to shoot the new ammo with the diffrent primer from the old stuff it is more tempature sensitive compared to the old lapua from old... You will need to shoot at least 100 rds if possible to narrow down any bad ammo from that lot.. Sometimes it takes more.. I dont sugest shooting 100 rds for every lot that you test! You only need to do this when you find ammo that looks promising.. Most ammo you can tell if it ain"t no good in short time.... It"s only the good ammo that might take many more shots before knowing if you want to pay all that money.. I shoot groups and patterns when testing and tunning.. Only touched a little bit today but i have to go.. Will add tomorrow on this.... Could take a while... I know most experienced shooters have their way of doing these things but i hope some of the new or inexperienced shooter will try what has worked for me.. Right or wrong... Harry...:):):)
 
here is how i had been doing it. i start out in my basement shooting 25 yards. i have found good amo will produce one tiny hole when i shoot 5,20&25 shot groups. the bad lots won't shoot tiny groups indoors at 25 yards(there are no indoor 50 yard ranges around me). then i take the best lots and move outside with it at 50 yards. that is how i had been doing it.
 
mojo2138 said:
In a perfect world, the best way to test and tune is to shoot first indoors. You can get that tuner just right for that lot number and shoot bugholes.....groups in the zeroes. want on the I/R 50 dot.
Click to expand...
I posted a question on this board about a year ago whether a tuner is barrel sensitive or ammo sensitive. It was unanamous that it was barrell sensitive and nor related to the ammo. When I shot in Arkansas I noted that the tuners were locked in with the spring and ball removed. I've followed that dictum and it seems to work. In my own personal experience with a Calfee Turbo, the accuracy was ammo dependent, not tuner dependent. I shot back to back 250's with 2 keyholes. I was told that tuner wasn't that right. and it still shots well. Opinions?
 
Doug said:
On the way to the Crawfish on Friday I will stop at Montezuma to test all the ammo Bob has in stock

Dougie, you're living in the past. The Crawfish was last April; The Georgia Catfish (see Leonard's post) is next week. Please don't drive to Jacksonville because it's 265 miles from here to Georgetown or Eufala, AL. However, you are welcome here anytime but we need your expertise in Georgetown and Montezume. Please reprogram your GPS.:eek:
Click to expand...
 
Testing Ammo not guns.

Best possible way is to shoot over a chronograph and on target at same time. Remember you are testing ammo. Barrels can be replaced but the super lot number will never be for sale! Best ammo will have extreme spread of 10 fps. I can win with ammo with extreme spread of 30 but not with the same regularity. And then there is the 1-2% wild factor in the ammo. Federal was the only company that had a consistent system and there is a reason the ammo companies have a couple grades of ammo.
Good Luck
BV
 
harrydeneen said:
....wilbur has made a great example of poi and poa.. Proably by mistake though!:d:d....
Click to expand...

If I made anything "great", I assure you it was a mistake.

Basically, I was sayin' that the mind works differently when switching from group to score. It's apples to oranges in comparison.
 
Wilbur

Wilbur said:
If I made anything "great", I assure you it was a mistake.

Basically, I was sayin' that the mind works differently when switching from group to score. It's apples to oranges in comparison.
Click to expand...

Why did you not chime in when I was trying to make that point on the Beggs post? I got fried by some guy from California that talked like Nancy Pelosie talking to a bunch of newsmen about radical Americans because I said something to that effect.
 
For those that chronograph while testing I have 2 questions. What would be the ES on the better lots tested? Do you believe there is a corolation between Good ammo and low ES?
 
i have a chrony. i mainly use it on centerfire rifles. i geuss i could set it up in the basement when i test lots and see how ammo does. is the max spread in speed 10fps or is there a higher spread that is ok?

i tested the lot of eley i am running out of for my suhl a year ago inside. i found 3 lots that seemed to work well. when i shot practice targets outside it got down to just that one lot.

the next house i build will have a basement big enough for me to test at 50 yards indoors. i only have 25 yards now so it is harder to test lots and find the best. bad lots will produce groups that measure over .250 from grease ring to grease ring. if a box(50 rounds) will produce a group that stays under .250 for a 5,20&25 shot group at 25 yards i set it aside and take the next box outside to test in the wind and real world at 50 yards. i buy as much of what does the best after testing outside.

again there are no indoor ranges around me for at least 100 miles. i have to try what i can and go from there in my basement and at my local range. it worked great for my suhl. this hall actioned rifle is a strange beast saying the least.
 
J Pappas said:
Why did you not chime in when I was trying to make that point on the Beggs post? I got fried by some guy from California that talked like Nancy Pelosie talking to a bunch of newsmen about radical Americans because I said something to that effect.
Click to expand...

I knew I heard it somewhere...
 
I would like to thank each of you, I have learned so much in the last few months from this forum and I like to exchange of info that takes place daily.

Again thank each and everyone.


Semper fi
pickles
 
Boy,

There have been some good post.. I will give a few examples of what has worked for me over the years on testing ammo ect, mr nobody. You are correct in saying that lesser ammo will not continue to shoot good patterns.. Most experienced shooters have their way of doing things.. Most people get 100rds of several lots of ammo to test at one time.. When i test ammo i shoot patterns to start with, i then weed out any ammo that has any loose shots, this usally dont take many shots, then i concentrate on the better ammo, i proceed to shoot patterns untill i narrow the lots down to a few if iam lucky! If i dont find the holy grail of ammo i the proceed to shoot patterns untill i find the best ammo that patterns and the i make sure by shooting enough looking fo any loose shots, if there is any loose shots i then go to another ammo by shooting enough patterns to se which lot is the most consistant.. It might not be the tightest ammo that is best if it has loose shots, then i proceed to shoot single shots! This is the most important process of all , i will explain more later on this when i have more time... This is where the poi vs the poa comes in... I have posted another time but somehow it did not come up... Bob.. If your gun is tuned without the ball and spring then thats fine, i have never removed mine... Dan mentioned about shooting 100 rds or so before selecting a lot of ammo and i agree.. Dont buy any ammo that you are not happy with .. If you have ammo then dont get any more unless its better than what you have.. If you are getting low then you will have to settle for the best you can find now... Alot of shooters make the mistake of shooting a few patterns and then going out and buying a bunch and ending up with subpar ammo... Here is my opinion via a couple other opinions about chronograph.. I dont want to step on any ones toes but you know what thaey say about opinions! I think using a chrono on rimefire is a waste of time... I have did it many time years ago and have found that ammo with greater spread difference shot just as good as lesser spread.... The only way to find great ammo is to test it out of your rifle , have to go ,, all interest and questions welcome... Harry...:):):)
 
Harrydeneen patterns?

A bad "pattern" in a 5 shot group I assume would be 4 and 1, or 3 and 2, as opposed to 5 evenly spaced shots. Would the evenly spaced shots always indicate better ammo even though the group size is larger?
 
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