Scale talk.........

Don't Kid Yourself

Practice your technique untill your arm falls off. There are things you are dealing with that are out of your controle.

N133 seems to be the big culprit. Ever look at that stuff. No two granules are even the same size, or the same shape. Depending on a volume dispenser that relys on nothing but gravity is wishfull thinking.

I will bet anybody a steak dinner that they cannot throw 20 charges of 133 in a row and have them all within that magic +- .1 grn, when weighed with a real scale............jackie
 
I agree with Jackie. The problem with throwing VV133 is VV133. I sure don't remember 97-99 lots of it being as bad as it is now but after I told a few people to pour some out in a pan and really look at it, they almost got to scared to shoot it and they already had been for years. I spent 4 hrs sifting 8 lbs of VV 133. I then shot some groups with the different sizes over a chrono.....don't ever do that.....let me say again....don't EVER do it.

I shoot mostly 8208 now and after a few years of throwing it now, I very seldom get a variation on that exceeds +/-.1 grain. I have kicked around for the last couple of years about weighing charges but just have got the nerve up to do it yet. Primarily because, trusting a scale at the range is one more variable to drive me crazy.

Hovis
 
I have an acculab at home( $300 plus) it causes me lots of grief. Also
have a competitive edge, it has not failed yet, and I have an rcbs/ohaus
505 in a stainless/non magnetic encloser with a glass door to check the
competitive edge. I can tell when the balance beam is not moving right.
If the others fail, it will be to late when I realize it. My RCBS scale needs
no batteries, just level it. A trickler hole in the side, and I'm good. It
works with all powders
 
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HovisKM said:
I shoot mostly 8208 now and after a few years of throwing it now, I very seldom get a variation on that exceeds +/-.1 grain. I have kicked around for the last couple of years about weighing charges but just have got the nerve up to do it yet. Primarily because, trusting a scale at the range is one more variable to drive me crazy.

Hovis
Click to expand...


bingo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
i have said this many times.
i consider one of the "edge" factors of 8202 is its consistancy thru a harrel's powder measure. ......i was getting plus or minus 0.05.....plenty good for br and better than any other powder i ran thru the measure including n133.
mike in co
 
size matters.........

mike in co said:
bingo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
i have said this many times.
i consider one of the "edge" factors of 8202 is its consistancy thru a harrel's powder measure. ......i was getting plus or minus 0.05.....plenty good for br and better than any other powder i ran thru the measure including n133.
mike in co
Click to expand...

Yes....I as well................

THIS is why I have been voice'n WHO is making the new IMR8208XBR (seems it is ADI) and IS it a TRUE duplicate of actual 8208/T32 in chemistry AND shape/size..... The original stuff is so very consistent.

Looking forward to testing with this new stuff...

If I get a tad lazy with the measure and 8208, I don't remember ever having greater than + or - .2 ....Typically I see + - .1, have seen many perfect measure drops during several long powder drop strings. 8208, like NO other single base powder.

Jackie, try this with your 8208... Pretty darn consistent.!

322 and Benchmark are close but these are just big enough to cause slight bridgeing of kernals and variability with a measure to cause => + -.2 ...


Still.......
Just think how many 2 / 3 / 4 gun and various records have been set with 133and a measure.......... Great guns, Great barrels and Great bullets, Great tune. A shooter who is one with the conditions........ Well, still wins most of the time.

cale
 
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Still wish some of you guys who know how to drive a rifle would buy a lb of Ramshot X-terminator and give it a try.;)
I would be very interested in the results.
Maybe, not likely, but just maybe the holy grail of powders already exists:D
If nothing else it should meter like water.
 
A friend, who shoots well, finally got a well built 6PPC. Being an experimenter, he tried several powders. A couple of years ago, he told me that when he and a similarly equipped shooting buddy reviewed their targets, that had been shot with their PPCs, that they found that Exterminator had produced the best results, by a slight, but definite margin. If his trials had been limited to what he read about, he would have never had the opportunity to find that out.

Years ago, I went to the range with a my first rifle that featured a hand lapped barrel (Hart) with a tight necked chamber, a .222. At the time, I owned two powders that had the possibility of working, 322, and 748. On a good day, loading at the range, I tried valiantly to get 322 to work. After all it was a classic combination. It wouldn't, so I tried the 748, which by the book should have been too slow. It worked fine. Later I chronographed the load. It was moving a 52 grain bullet at 3,250, just right. After that, that was all I shot. The only "problem" that I had with the load was that every time that I told someone what powder I was shooting, they just "knew" that it had to be too slow for that caliber. Believe your targets.
 
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I believe

a balance beam scale is the only TRUE scale when it is calibrated and you trust it.

I have 2 RCBS scales. They react differently. The one that I grabbed from my father is the one I trust. You drop a kernel and it moves. The other you drop a kernel it does not move. It may take 3-4 kernels before it moves. It is just not smooth so it sits on the shelf.

I feel maybe it is better off in the garbage than trying to sell it to another loader.

I hear and appreciate all arguments in the scale talk. I like the idea of a box around the beam scale to minimize the effects of wind. It is almost impossible to stop vibrations when sharing a table at the range with other loaders unless you have your own and off into the corner you go.

This is why I want a electronic scale. I feel vibration may not be as big a factor.

I hear that cheap does not equal repeatability with a electronic scale. It is possible but I think technique and a consistent method of using it would help to eliminate that. Letting the scale warmup so it has a chance to stabilize and rezeroing after every weighing process I feel are very important even with a expensive scale.

As has been mentioned in Jackies thread it is just to confirm thrown charges that they are not out a whole lot.

Anyways just a few of my thoughts and thanks to all who have contributed.

Calvin
 
From what I have heard discussed

the quality of the strain gauge inside an electronic scale is what makes them either good or bad. I think one can luck out and get a good one when buying a cheap one but the only way to know that is to verify it with a scale that is absolutely trustworthy; sort of complicates things, dosen't it? :(
 
Thanks Boyd. You made my day.
I'm just a greenhorn but like your friend I was not satisfied with N-133 and decided to look elsewhere. No doubt it has awesome potential but my particular barrel did not appreciate it as much as I hoped. Nice tight groups at 200yds followed by "walking" bullets that ended in unacceptable dispersion. In other words clean every group or accuracy would go south fast. Then theres the tuning hoops to jump through. I wanted better.

X-terminator seems to have solved all those issues. Put around 300 HBN coated pills and just a few dry patches through my 6ppc and its still shooting better than I can. Even switching between two lots the charge remains the same.

Same time I was exploring my new/used 6ppc I was running in a new 204R factory barrel. X-Term gave me the best results in that so I loaded up some in the 6. After the 200yd Audette ladder I knew I had stumbled onto something good. For me anyway,Thnx again.
 
Well gang

I just received in the mail a Jennings JS-VG mini scale that fits perfect in my loading box.

I have been throwing charges with the Harrell and 133 and checking them on the scale and so far I am VERY IMPRESSED with the results I have been getting.

I have been using the same 6BR case over and over to see when the scale decides to wander from zero. It appears to be quite consistent from throw to throw.

It definately is a FAR cry better than the digital Lyman 1000 grain capacity scale that I have. I am not even sure it is worth selling off.

I will have to throw 100 charges and mark the results down to see what variations I get.

Calvin
 
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