Scale talk.........

CYanchycki

CYanchycki

Club Coordinator
Okay there is so much talk about the cream of the crop shooters who are winning are weighing there charges and not just throwing them.

I am not about to loose faith in the money I spent on my Harrel to give up and just weigh my charges.

Some of us work very hard for what we have to enjoy this sport at a level we can feel good about.

What I want is a reasonably priced (name brand) if it matters, micro scale to haul in my loading box to verify my thrown charges periodically.

What are some opinions and a online store to order from?

Calvin
 
cannot be done....

you need a solid surface, wind proof......

when scaling down to sub .1 as in either .02 or .01...portable/compact is not practical.

my mx123 from denver scale is around $325 and sits on a dedicated granite top bench.

low cost, compact AND ACCURATE TO SUB .1......does not seem to mix well.

someone prove me wrong....no plus or minus .1 scales need apply.

mike in co
 
So Mike

if I read your post right then using a scale at the range to weigh charges is a utter waste of time.

There are no rock solid surfaces or windproof locations to make it worthwhile at a range. So then where do you go to weigh your charges at a match?

This would lead me to believe that the other threads about weighing charges at matches are all HOG WASH. So now I am trying to decipher what is FACT or FICTION.

I do understand what you are trying to say. I am just looking for a reasonable scale for my range loading box.

Calvin
 
It's being done !

I've seen a few innovative shooters at matches weigh their charges using a RCBS Charge Master Combo 1500 right behind the line with it enclosed in a windproof box with a plexiglass door [to see what's going on inside].

Jerry Hensler has the covers of BOTH of his 1500's [its own scale cover] windproof with foam glued all along the internal edges to keep out the elements. Each Combo also has its own set of 8 "D" batteries hooked up in a neat little black plastic device that provides the power.

It's been done and being done successfully at the range. Where there is a will there is a way. Some "B"enchrest shooters are improvising and adapting ... like they've always done !!! ;)
 
At 1-200 yd. I think that a Chargemaster's accuracy is all that you need. Here is a picture of the first man that I saw using one at the range, well before this picture was taken.
Visalia10-18-09fiveshotunlim006.jpg
 
Boyd Allen said:
At 1-200 yd. I think that a Chargemaster's accuracy is all that you need. Here is a picture of the first man that I saw using one at the range, well before this picture was taken.
Click to expand...
I wonder if the guy in that picture knows what he is doing? (Walt Berger knows what he is doing for sure)

We've been using the Chargemaster Combo at the range since 2005. Most were used within the confines of a camper. But some, like the first portable I saw, was Larry Feisse. He used a 12volt battery and a 12v-110v converter. It is simpler than that and costs less than $65 by using a battery booster that has a 12v socket on it.

Is a weighed charge a needed step? It just eliminates a potential variable. But, think about it, all the winnings and all the records set prior to about 2005 were set with dumped charges.
 
Mike

mike in co said:
cannot be done....

you need a solid surface, wind proof......

when scaling down to sub .1 as in either .02 or .01...portable/compact is not practical.

my mx123 from denver scale is around $325 and sits on a dedicated granite top bench.

low cost, compact AND ACCURATE TO SUB .1......does not seem to mix well.

someone prove me wrong....no plus or minus .1 scales need apply.

mike in co
Click to expand...

I agree and its a good question.

I anyone is old enough and ever took a high school or college chemestry class, remember the balance beam scales. They, of course, were inside a class room, but they also had their own cabinet with glass closing doors in order to get a precision reading.

Cheap good scales....depends on how you define good I guess? --Greg
 
Once Again

I am not convinced that we need more than +- .1 accuracy of charges. But, I think shooters are fooling thenselves when they think they are achieving this every time they throw a charge. Unless you check each one, you have no way of knowing.

As I said in a previous post, I can sit down with my Hensler Powder Measure and throw 20 charges, and 17 will be well within the +- .1. But, invariably, at least three will be off enough to be of a concern. I have had some come out as much as .4 over, that is too much.

I used to think my powder thrower would throw accurate every time, time after time, if I did the same thing every time. But, it just doesn't happen. And, unless you have a way to actually check the charge you just threw, you are fooling yourself with false expectations.

Actually, I am not "weighing" charges, I am checking charges. I have found that when you zero the case, and throw a charge, if it is too light or heavy, it is quicker to just dump it and throw another rather than trying to meticuosly drop in a tenth or two in or take that same amount out.........jackie
 
I want to

clarify that I started this thread not to take away from Jackie's thread.

I started it for ideas on a micro or pocket scale that people have used that they have been happy with.

Still waiting for some thoughts.............

Calvin
 
I can say

without much hesitation that it will be difficult to find a reliable small scale. I have had a few small scales, from $15. off Ebay to the MTM SInclair sells ( I have 2 of them). None of them, including a Tanita which was pricey, I have had have been reliable. A fellow who shoots with us has an AcuLab Pocket Pro and I think he likes it. It is $117.50 in Sinclairs catalog. It's quite a gamble but I think I can say with some amount of certainty that one must pay for a good one and one gets what one pays for, If they are lucky. All considered I guess I would go in the direction of the AcuLab Pocket Pro. I have the larger AcuLab scale and it is reliable I believe.
 
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Competitive Edge

I have one of these, as well as the Denver. The problem with the little Competitive Edge is it does not return to zero all the time. For instance, when you set the case on there, and zero the scale, then throw a charge, weight it, remove the case to take a tad out, and it weighs the same, or a .1 more,:eek: then you know something is amiss. You set the empty case back on the scale, and the zero is as much as .3 off.

I was loading next to Chris Harris at the Nationals, he used a little Hornady Scale that seemed as good as the Competitive Edge.

Get the idea. Some of this is not as easy as it looks. Sure, sitting in a office or shop with a nice solid table and no elements, it all works fine.

The big Denver Scale will return to zero each time. But, it runs off 110 volts, which means a battery and a converter if you do not have a 110 source at the range. I used it at the last range session, worked fine, but I will admitt, it is more junk I have to haul around. ...........jackie
 
CYanchycki said:
clarify that I started this thread not to take away from Jackie's thread.

I started it for ideas on a micro or pocket scale that people have used that they have been happy with.

Still waiting for some thoughts.............

Calvin
Click to expand...
Lyman markets a small pocket size scale that might work for what you want. Last time I was in the Hornady plant in Grand Island they had the Lyman scales scattered about in every work area.

Used outdoors or in breezy areas an unshielded scale, electronic or balance, will not give good results.

Notice that the RCBS Chargemaster has a built in, hinged, wind shield. As to leveling requirements, when I set my RCBS Chargemaster up in my camper I try to level it to about 1/4 bubble or less, but just with a string level. Doesn't seem to require any special setup.
 
no mater what you buy for this plan, you will need a lab quality scale to verify what YOUR scale is doing.

mike in co
 
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Chargemaster leveling

Jerry,
I went to the junkyard and got a piece of 1/4" aluminum plate and cut 2 pieces to fit under my Chargemasters(1 for the bench at the house and 1 for taking to matches). I drilled and threaded 3 holes( 1 at the back and 2 up front (1 on each side). I set the Chargemaster on the plate and level it all up with the 3 legs on the plate. It gives me more adjustment than the little funky feet on the bottom of the Chargemaster. This helps when you can't find a good piece of level ground at a match.
Best,
Dan Batko

"Where are we going and why am I in this basket?"
 
A friend has a scale that measures to .01 grain. Being too cheap to buy a set of test weights, I simply weighed several coins of different denominations several times each, after calibrating the scale, and wrote their weights on a scrap of paper. I stacked the coins, wrapped the paper around them, and held the whole thing together with a large spring clip. It stays in the back of one of my desk drawers. If I have a question about how accurate a scale is, at least I can compare its results to something more expensive than I want to own.
 
jackie schmidt said:
Actually, I am not "weighing" charges, I am checking charges. I have found that when you zero the case, and throw a charge, if it is too light or heavy, it is quicker to just dump it and throw another rather than trying to meticuosly drop in a tenth or two in or take that same amount out.........jackie
Click to expand...

Jackie,
I tried doing that at first, but found that the thrower would run strings, both high and low. When using my small portable scale I tare each case and have the thrower set to throw just a bit over, then pour out the excess and re-weight the case. I now do this only at my club range because we don't have power. At registered shoots I load in my trailer with a Charge Master.

When you are at a two relay shoot and you don't have a lot of time to get back to the line it will drive you stark raving mad when your thrower throws seven in a row too low!!! :mad:
 
FBecigneul said:
Originally Posted by mike in co
no mater what you buy for this plan, you will need a lab quality scale to verify what YOUR scale is doing.

mike in co

Read the targets. One can make 0.1, 0.2, 0.3 work
If those who distrust a powder measure would practice proper use of their measure, they would keep the variance to within 0.1
Click to expand...

Francis,
I've tried that and it just doesn't work. No matter how careful you are you WILL throw some charges .2 under and you WILL throw some charges .2 over.

Every once in a while it WILL get to .3 over or under.
 
I have to agree with Mike in Co on this.
I bought a Hornady something or other portable battery operated scale in hopes of loading at a range. ($100.00)
Tried for four straight hours in my home to get it to measure just one charge reliably. Never got the same number twice.
Put it back in its box and brought it back.

Cheap and portable does'nt work. I would'nt even attempt to bring my MX - 123 out to a range. I wish Jackie good luck with his upscaled scale.
 
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