Savage 12F - Reports?

Savage came across with a new gun for me in 6.5 as the first showed lots of chatter marks in the barrel.

Seems 3 shipments escaped with a lack of QA on the guns.

This one shots a whole lot better than the first, Tuesday will tell as a 1000 yard shoot is on.

Bob.
 
passion4shootin said:
Someone shot two 5 shot groups barely over 0.5 MOA groups at 600 yds this weekend at Williamsport using the Savage F-class 6.5-284 using 142 SMK,
50 gr. H4831sc. Curious to see how it performs at 1K.
Ed
Click to expand...

This seems to be a popular load and I have tried it many times to no avail. In the lands, out, touching. Worked the ladder in .2 grains all the way to 52 grains. This gun does not like to be juiced up.

Oh well if it was simple, it wouldn't be fun.
 
Bob Raymond

At 1K about 13 inch group ( 9 shots )with one flyer opening it to 23 inches. :eek: That's using the Lapua 139 Scenars jumping the rifling. I'll try the Sierras again.
I will be trying both the Sierras jumping and jaming. For completeness sake, I should do the ladder test with the Scenars also. Hopefully this Tuesday I'll be able to do this.

Will post results here.

Shoot well.

Ed
 
You guys are scaring the hell out of me! After much thought I just purchased 2 new Savage rifles. An Model 10 FP, and a 12F/TR in .308. These are my first Savage bolt guns. I went with them based on all of the good reports I've read on various forums about the great results guys have been getting with Savage rifles. Then I read the last 3 pages here. Yikes! I live in Glendale, Arizona, (suburb of Phoenix), and it's much too hot to shoot now, so I'm planning on getting both of these guns scoped out, loaded up for, and ready to go by the time the cooler weather comes in October. These are the 7 loads in .308 I've worked up with new brass to get things started.

1.) Mixed Headstamp, 44.0 Gr. Varget, Federal 215 M Primer, Sierra 168 Gr. Matchking H.P.

2.) Remington Case, 40.0 Gr. AA 2230-C, Federal 215 M Primer, Sierra 180 Gr. B.T.H.P.

3.) Winchester Case, 42.2 Gr. AA 2230-C, Federal 210 Primer, Sierra 155 Gr. Matchking

4.) Remington Case, 44.0 Gr. Varget, Federal 215 M Primer, Sierra 168 Gr. Matchking

5.) Remington Case, 42.0 Gr. IMR 4064, Federal 215 M Primer, Nosler 180 Gr. Ballistic Tip

6.) Remington Case, 42.0 Gr. IMR 4064, Federal 215 M Primer, Nosler 165 Gr. Ballistic Tip

7.) Lapua Case, 44.0 Gr. Varget, Federal 215 M Primer, Sierra 168 Gr. Matchking

I lucked out in that both chambers will seat .020 off the lands with the same O.A.L. For glass I don't have anything written in stone as of yet, but I'm leaning to this Leupold Mark IV for the Model 12F/TR:

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=217984&t=22164010

And this Bushnell for the Model 10 FP:

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=234058&t=22164010

Most likely with a Warne 20 MOA base and Burris Signature Zee Rings. I sure hope I have better luck than some of what I've read here. Time will tell. These are both rifles as taken from the box. Bill T.

savage12ftractionzi3.jpg


savage12ftrin4.jpg


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savage10fpsd7.jpg
 
Don't let them scare you. I have the 12F in 6.5 - 284 and really like it.
I have seen all the horror stories, but my gun is performing very well. I did send back the first rifle though. It probably would have performed well, but I did not like the condition of the bolt face. It had a lot of nicks and dings. Savage replaced it immediately and without any hassle. I am satisfied with the service received and would recommend their rifles.
I also will point out that I have done nothing to the rifle other than put mounts and scope on it and shoot. I have never even checked the tension on the action screws. The gun just shoots and shoots good.
I just started shooting f-open competition this spring and love it.
I have experimented with various bullets and currently use the 140gr. A-max. It and the 142gr. MK shoot best. With both of these bullets I can shoot 7-8" 10 shot groups at 1,000 and 4" at 600. I know some people may not be satisfied with that, but I believe it to be pretty good. Especially since I am new to this and with a factory rifle. I currently have shot over 700 rounds.

Anyway, good luck and I hope to see how it turns out for you.
 
Thanks for the reply. Glad to hear you have had good luck. 8" 10 shot groups at 1,000 and 4" at 600 yards is damn good shooting! If I can get mine to perform that well, I'll be a very happy camper! I have to say the fit and finish on both of my rifles is better than I expected. I just wish the weather was a little cooler here so I could get out and shoot them. I work weekend nights so getting to shoot in any F-Class matches is going to be tough for me. Being off all week has it's advantages however. At my club range, many times I have the entire range to myself for hours on end. That makes it really nice for working up load development and such. I've been wanting a 12F/TR for some time, but they've been hard to come by in these parts. What really turned me on to them was one day at the range a fellow member showed up with one in 6.5 X .284. The gun was beautiful, and he was getting remarkable groups at 500 yards with it. That convinced me right then and there. I chose .308 because I already reload in that caliber, and have plenty of bullets, brass, etc. Anyway I'm glad yours is performing so well for you. I'll let you know my results as soon as I get to shooting. Bill T.
 
6BR report

For all of those whom have trashed talked the Savages (and I am sure there have been real problems), check out Terry Brady's review of the F-class in the 6BR. He posted a 0.170 MOA at 200 yds. That is in the hands of a world record holder. They certainly have their faults, but Savages are an excellent value and shooters IMHO.

http://accurateshooter.net/bulletin.html

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That's a very good article, and makes me feel a whole lot better. I doubt you can honestly expect more from a factory, box stock rifle than that. Bill T.
 
At the risk of being called negative, while the achievements described in that article are very impressive, I'd like to wait and see what the general concensus is, after numbers of good shooters have been using these for a while. With factory rifles you would expect to get some variation in accuracy i.e. you might be lucky and get a very good one, or not so lucky. I sincerely hope I'm wrong, and will be the first to admit it if they turn out to be a great success.

Alan
 
Ace 600-yard shooter Terry Brady has been testing a box-stock, factory Savage 6BR F-Class rifle for AccurateShooter.com. This gun features a 30″, 8-twist barrel (0.100″ freebore), Savage Target Action, and heavy, laminated stock with 3″-wide fore-end. We know you guys have been eagerly awaiting the accuracy results. We’ll let the targets speak for themselves. Bottom Line: the Savage 6BR shoots… like a house on fire.



Savage Shoots under 1/2″ at 200 Yards
With Terry’s handloads (Norma 203B powder, CCI 450s, Berger 105s loaded .010″ into lands), the Savage produced three-shot groups well under 1/2″ at 200 yards. That’s right, TWO hundred. Measuring off Terry’s photos, using our target measurement software, one of the 200-yard groups was a measured .350″ or 0.167 MOA.


Orange target dots are 1″ diameter. Top row are 3-shot groups, center row (with 90gr factory ammo) are 5-shot groups.



Impressive Bugholes at 100 yards
At 100 yards, Terry had one 5-shot group with the Berger 105gr Match (non-VLD) that measured 0.140″ with our target measurement software. Measuring with calipers, Terry said this group was 0.279″ outside edge to outside edge. It’s interesting that Norma 203B shot tighter in this rifle than did Varget, as you can see.


Orange target dots are 1″ diameter.



Half-MOA or better with Lapua Factory Ammo at 300 Yards
The Savage 6BR also shot exceptionally well with Lapua factory ammo of two types, one loaded with 90gr BT Scenars, the other loaded with 105gr BT Scenars. Because Terry had a limited amount of factory ammo, at 300 yards, he shot three-shot groups. The 90gr ammo shot 1.490″ or about 1/2 MOA, while the 105gr ammo shot .780″, about 1/4 MOA. For comparison sake, Terry’s handloads (Berger 105s, 30.5 RL15) put FIVE shots in 0.650″ at 300 yards.



Complete Report Will Follow
We will provide a complete feature article on this rifle in the weeks ahead. That will include load data, more accuracy testing results, and Terry’s comments about the rifle. If someone in North Carolina can help Terry with a video camera, we’ll add video to the story.

So far Brady has been very impressed with the Savage overall, but he had two minor criticisms. First, he felt the Accutrigger spring weight is a bit too heavy, and second, he noted that the 1″-wide flat on the bottom of the stock at the rear is too wide for most bags: “It didn’t track well with my bag. I had to really hold the gun. Ideally you’ll want a bag with wider ear spacing.”

Overall, Terry gives the Savage an “A” grade: “For an out-of-the-box bench gun, it is well worth the money! I would recommend it to any shooter.”
 
LAst month In Missouri, Ron Boyd posted a 5" something group at 1000 yard, 50 score with a stock Savage 6BR...I was at the last match there, and factory class??? All and only Savage rifles! They where all shooting as well as most custom guns. For the money, these guns can't be beat.

I can attest to arkcomatt...I've seen(and shoot a few myself with it) many sub 7-9" 10-shot, 1000 yard groups with his gun.

As in almost all new products coming to market, there are always a few teething problems, but the problems that there have been, Savage jumped and fixed the problem and satisfied their customers. I think Savage is doing a wonderful thing but introducing these semi-custom guns at a price that the average person can afford. They have brought a whole bunch of people into the long range shooting sports that normally wouldn't/couldn't because of the costs involve. We need to bring in all the shooters we can for the continued growth of the sport, and Savage as stepped up and produce a fine gun and at great price.

Jim
 
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I have been shooting one of the new 6br. When I first shot the rifle I shot 14 5 shot groups at 500 yds it agged 2.10 with new brass. I shot it at south dakota state championship 600 ibs it finished 15th light gun out of around 7o lite guns. I also shot a lrpv 22-250 in a f-class savage stock it finished 12th out of 40 heavy guns. The 6br agged 3.9 and the 22-250 agged 3.5 at 600yds . I have no complaints with these Savages. Both guns had groups under 2'' at 600yds. It was windy conditions. Team Savage shooter Jason Hunt:)
 
The 6 BR nor the .308 had any problems, only the 6.5.

Savage has been stellar in dealing with the problems, no question asked replacement policy, I know they replaced two 6.5 for me with the same problem.

The third one took me to first in F(M) class last weekend at Borden at 1000 yards on a 1/2 MOA target.:)
 
Bob (or others),

Did your 6.5-284 come with a loooong throat in it?

If so, how many rounds do you have through it now?

Thanks,

Monte
 
milanuk said:
Bob (or others),

Did your 6.5-284 come with a loooong throat in it?

If so, how many rounds do you have through it now?

Thanks,

Monte
Click to expand...

Yes all have been long, 2.570 OAL or so if my memory is correct but all 3 exactly the same.


My problems were reamer chatter in the last 4 inches of the rifling. Only visible with a bore scope.

Barrel only had 1 node and way too low to get to 1000.

I am at a round count of 200 on the last rig, problems revealed themselves on the others by 150 or so.

Bob.
 
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Interesting. I know what you mean about the chatter... some (most?) of the barrels we see on the 12 F/TRs have some rifling that just does not look like it should shoot well at all - but numerous Nat'l records have been set w/ said barrels, so what do ya do?

2.570" sounds about like the one I have - about 200rds ago it was around 2.562", now at about 500rds it's at 2.565" COL for a Berger 140gr VLD seated to hard jam and measured w/ a Stoney Point comparator (3.208" OAL) - which according to Quick Load leaves about 0.088" worth of bullet shank in the neck. A Sierra 142gr MK seated hard into the lands measures 2.612" with the comparator and 3.192" OAL. FWIW, I talked to the factory and they said they chamber to the Norma spec, which does have a longer throat than the original. I think may be a bit *too* long, but thats just me.

I recently loaded up some rounds (142SMK) at .030" off the lands, and they seem to shoot okay... guess I'll have to play with it some more. I didn't have the chrono with me this morning, so I didn't get any hard numbers but I think it may need some tweaking. With all the excess case capacity from the long throat, it seems like a person should be able to get the velocity up there. I think it's going to take something a whole lot slower than H4350, though.
 
Montee,

Try H4831 SC with the 142 SMK at the lands, velocity will be around 2900, well supersonic at 1000.

4350 is hard on the throat.

Bob.
 
Glad to hear you found your self a rig that works, thumbs up to savage for helping you out!

I have not fooled around with 4831 sc but by the sounds of it i should!

I made a rookie mistake and am looking forward to getting back out with my 6.5 it shot well .3s and .4s at 100 but i was off the lands i read my stoney point tool wrong and smoked the lands and found i was .100 off of it WOW big difference. so I adjusted teh oal to kissing it i expect good things out of this rig .

regards
 
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