Rifle for Airgun Benchrest?

S

ShadowChaser

Guest
I'm considering purchasing a rifle for Airgun Benchrest shooting. I know virtually nothing about airgun benchrest, what type rifle is most commonly used?

Sights? Scope?

I'm most interested in either PCP or Co2 powered guns, what caliber is most commonly used?

I really have no idea what I'm getting into however I have more than 50 years experience shooting rimfire target shooting, own several good rimfire target rifles including a Winchester Model 52D I've been shooting since 1967 and an Anschutz...

However air rifles (Co2) and pellet guns are a whole new experience for me. I presently own a Crosman 2300S Silhouette/Field Target Co2 pistol and a AR-2078A Co2 target rifle that would seem to have an accuracy problem...

I have come to the conclusion that I need to buy another quality pellet target rifle and I'm looking for suggestions and information... Benjamin Discovery is one possibility I am considering but have no idea if this is a suitable gun...

Thanks,
Mitch & Shadow...
 
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Mitch,
If you can make our (Holbrook, MA) Indoor AGBR shoot Feb. 7, I will bring 4 guns you can try. Theoben MFR in .177 Theoben RAPID MK II in .22 both in Bench Rest Stocks. Walther LGR in .177, FWB 300 in .177.
I am sure you could try other peoples guns also. USFT, AA410, QB78 in Air, FWB etc. I have a 45X Leupold on MFR and Weaver T36 on the Rapid, 6-24 Bushnell 4200 on the Walther. Would have to mount something on the FWB.
I also can bring a one piece rest, Fudd two piece, Car scissor jack along with several rear bags. Doug, Craig and Norm all have years experience with different airguns. David,Doug,Norm,Craig all have shot record targets. The Carroll brothers are the ones to beat in springer and match class. Todd from NY along with Doug rebuilt his .22 Rapid and shot a 249 and a 250 outside.
Doug builds his own parts and stock, Todd built his own BR stock. You will get more information in one day than you would on your own in 6 months.

Paul
 
Paul,

Thats a great idea. Will have to wait and see what WX and another complication I am dealing with works out for that date before I can plan anything. However I'd love to come and meet the gang and see the guns, I know I could learn a lot if I can make it... If I can't make it in Feb, I'm sure at some point I'll make one of your matches this spring...

Thanks for the invitation...

Mitch...
 
Paul Bendix said:
Mitch,
If you can make our (Holbrook, MA) Indoor AGBR shoot Feb. 7, I will bring 4 guns you can try. Theoben MFR in .177 Theoben RAPID MK II in .22 both in Bench Rest Stocks. Walther LGR in .177, FWB 300 in .177.
I am sure you could try other peoples guns also. USFT, AA410, QB78 in Air, FWB etc. I have a 45X Leupold on MFR and Weaver T36 on the Rapid, 6-24 Bushnell 4200 on the Walther. Would have to mount something on the FWB.
I also can bring a one piece rest, Fudd two piece, Car scissor jack along with several rear bags. Doug, Craig and Norm all have years experience with different airguns. David,Doug,Norm,Craig all have shot record targets. The Carroll brothers are the ones to beat in springer and match class. Todd from NY along with Doug rebuilt his .22 Rapid and shot a 249 and a 250 outside.
Doug builds his own parts and stock, Todd built his own BR stock. You will get more information in one day than you would on your own in 6 months.

Paul
Click to expand...

Paul,
I'm very interested in Airgun Benchrest shooting and precision airgun target shooting in general. As I've said, I'm new to pellet guns, I have been shooting rimfire target guns for over fifty years but with the cost of ammo skyrocketing and being newly retired, I'm looking at a new venue of shooting to get into and that would be Airgun Benchrest Shooting...

I know little about pellet rifles, I have acquired my first two since the first of the year, a Crosman 2300S Co2 Silhouette pistol in .177 caliber, and a Chinese made "Industry Brand" AR-2078A .177 Co2 target rifle and I find both to be very enjoyable to shoot and the AR-2078A rifle is an excellent fit for me, even better than my Anschutz and Winchester target rifles. It has a very smooth trigger of 1lb pull and is very stable to fire in bench rest mode.

However, if I have learned one thing to date in my brief venture into pellet airgun shooting so far, it is that while the Chinese made AR-2078A rifle is a joy to shoot, it leaves a lot to be desired in the accuracy department when one starts to explore the possibilities of Airgun Bench rest shooting. It has become obvious to me that a much higher grade of air rifle is required with a top end match grade barrel and so I find myself considering the purchase of such a rifle.

As I know very little about pellet rifles, I'd like to hear from others about what you are shooting for airguns for precision airgun/pellet rifle shooting that is competitive?

Guns I've looked at on the web are the Air Arms S200 and S400 series, The BSA SuperTEN and Super-10 MKIII series, the Weirbrauch HW100T, the FX Tyhpoon, and the Theoben Cyclone...

I'd appreciate comments about any of these and their suitability for use in precision shooting at 25 yards?

You mentioned the possibility of shooting several guns that fall into the families of guns I've looked at on the web and that interests me very much. As to the FWB300 not having a scope, that is not an issue although that is a gun that interests me, my brother has a FWB150 and I am familiar with what the 300 is. I think the gun that interests me most at the moment is the BSA SuperTEN series and the Super-10 MkIII as I have the possibility of buying one but am hesitent as I do not know anything about its suitability for Airgun Benchrest shooting...

I'd appreciate any and all input, I have a lot to learn and really appreciate your help...

Thanks, and Happy Shooting...
__________________
Mitch & Shadow...
NRA Distinguished Life Member
 
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Mitch,
In the link below is the results from our AGBR match back in Nov. You can see what the rifles were and what they shot scorewise. I was the only shooter with any competitive BR experience but I had only shot my CRX a few times in my back yard when I was doing the pre-purchase try out. I think the other guys had very credible scores for their first BR match, their first look at the target used and their first time shooting over flags. They also had very rudimentary rest set ups.

It appears that there are quite a few rifles that shoot good enough to do well in their respective classes. I also bought a Steyr Match co2 rifle that is amazingly acccurate and I can't wait for the opportunity to try it out head to head against the CRX.

Good luck
Ray

http://benchrest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=57262
 
Mitch,
I don't know much about many airguns. Last October shoot, both Norm and Craig showed up with new BSA S10's both in .22. Craig shot241,239,241. Norm had scope problems and shot 224,231,229 maybe you can shoot one of their's.
Norm does very well with his AA S400 in .177 his high score is 249 7X's and shoots high 240's.
Craig's QB78 converted to Air Has shot 249 durning the first or second match.

David and Doug both have guns that have shot many 250's Doug's self smith .22 Theoben and David's mostly self tuned .177 Theoben.
Todd's .22 Rapid was rebuilt durning Jan. match, and with a valve from Doug he shot a 249.
Match Class
Len's FWB P70 245 1X
Todd's Walther LGR 246 1X
Jon's FWB 603 247 2X

I hope to get one of my Theoben's shooting good enough for Benchrest. I bought 5 Mag's two .177 and three .22 at $90.00 each but to shoot competive you need to load single shot.

Paul
 
Mitch,

I think it would be best if you came to a match at Holbrook and looked and tried a few of the guns there. I think it was said earlier but it's worth repeating that there are 3 classes shooting PCP, Match, and Springer.

PCP - Potentially most expensive because most guys end up buying a air tank vs using a hand pump and the good guns are expensive. You can get into a low end PCP for a few hundred dollars buying a US made gun or a Chinese import. People taking this route tend to then spend a lot getting parts changed and "tuned" and end up spending as much or more than if they bought a better quality to begin with.

Match guns - You can buy a excellent used one for from the 1970-1990 era for 400. You can get a 1990-2000 ssp for 800-2000 or even spend more than 2k for a Olympic match quality PCP.

Springers - As low as 200 for a Gamo CFX to 600 dollars or so for a Air Arms TX-200 or a Weirhauch HK97.

You can obviously beat some of these prices buying used / sometimes failed experiments from guys that just like to change guns often.

One thing to kep in mind about the S10 is that BSA has come out with a R10 that has a lot of features people with S10's (like me) wish they had. The big one is a quickfill so you aren't required to remove the air bottle to fill it up and a built in pressure guage.

Look on the Yellow forum http://www.network54.com/Forum/79537/ lots of people there talking about every kind of gun. There is a blog at http://www.pyramydair.com/blog/ written by Tom Gaylord who does a excellent job writing on a lot of airgun nuances.

The Chinese forum (part of the Yelloe forum) has a lot of folks that will chat about straigtening out that 2079 of yours.

Good luck and we will be looking for you in Holbrook one of these matches.
 
Paul, Ray, NLieber, and all others who've responded, Thanks for your great advice and help...

At this point, I'm planning on the Feb 7th match at Holbrook, it sounds like the best thing for me to do as well as being a lot of fun and great chance to learn from what sounds like a great pool of knowledge...

I've been thinking of purchasing another pellet rifle, its become obvious to me that I need something more capable than what I have now and the new Benjamin Discovery PCP dual fuel is what I've been thinking about up until I discovered AGBR...

However as I started reading about what is happening with AGBR, its been fuel on the fire and has caused me to rethink my plans and needs and now, if I were to place an order today, it would most likely be for the Air Arms S400 MPR. However I still have a lot to learn and think that waiting until after the Holbrook match on Feb 7th is the best thing for me to do... Lets hope weather and other circumstances cooperate for that date...

Thanks again, Happy Shooting,

Mitch & Shadow...
 
Top Shelf Air Rifle

MAC1 US FT winner of 2005 Nationals. There is one listed in the classifieds.
 
best rifle

:DThe secret is not quite out yet but the USFT's that Tim McMurray (at Mac One Air Gun) is building are absolutely the best I've seen. Believe me, they will flat shoot. The craftmanship is impeckable, they will last a lifetime, and they operate off 1600psi (not 3000psi). His father started the business and Tim took over so basically he has been doing this all his life. I believe they won the world championships their first year out. I cannot say enough about the guns and Tim is always willing to help answer any questions. He has enough knowledge about air rifles to just about give you a headache listening to him! Good Luck, Paul Thompson:D:D
 
I was going to get the Air Arms EV2 for FT, but wondering if it would lend itself to benchrest as well. Here's a link:

http://www.pyramydair.com/cgi-bin/zoomed_model.pl?model_id=649

I started off with modified spring guns but really love the precharged the best. A nice 10-meter precharged rifle is fun in the back yard to inspire the kids and wife with the sport, and learn the wind.

Most of my air rifle experience comes from FT and a close friend that's been nationally-ranked for years. Granted, there are not a lot of shooters in this field, but it's exciting. Too bad it doesn't get the attention it deserves with other benchrest shooters. I'm just now getting started with BR and expecting my first rifle to be completed in about a month.
 
The decision has been made...

To all you great folks that have helped,

First off, I thank all of you for the help and advise you have been quick to answer my questions with regarding choosing a precision airgun and related gear... And especially the great group of fellows at the Holbrook Club ABGR match I met Saturday, my hat is off to you gentlemen...

I think at this point it is only fair to share with you my decision about purchasing a precision airgun and how I came to the choice that I have made.

As most of you probably know, I made it to the Holbrook Sportsman's Club AGBR match on Saturday, Feb 7th. and had the good fortune to be invited to shoot with these good gentlmen and loaned the use of a fine gun by Paul Bendix... Most of you probably know how that turned out and if you do not, its in the Feb 7th Holbrook Match results... A very good day...

Prior to this match, I spent much of the month of January researching airguns, talking to a lot of people and asking questions here on the forum as you know...

I also had the good fortune to hook up with a couple of serious airgun shooters in Great Britain who shared a lot of information with me and the Friday before the match, I talked for a second time with Jim Stanis at Precision Airguns and he e-mailed me information and a picture of a gun that I felt would be the best fit to my needs and budget, an Air Arms S400MPR-FT...

At that point I was looking seriously at Theoben, BSA, and Air Arms guns and with some interest in the Weihrach (SP?) HW100 and the Daystate Mk3 however the Daystate was well over my budget when considering that I was starting from scratch and would need just about everything under the sun...

I also felt that to start out with a Theoben and what it would take to set one up would be stretching my finances too thin considering all other purchases that I knew I would be making. At that point I thought I had a usable SCUBA tank and would be set for air however Monday of this week following the match, I discovered the tank I was planning to use was too low a pressure rated tank being 2200 psi rated working capacity and solved that problem with a phone call to AirHog... A new tank is on its way...

Another positive factor in my decision was that Norm Lieber came to the match with the very same model gun, the S400MPR-FT, that I was talking with Jim Stanis about, the gun that seemed to be the best fit to my needs and a gun with an excellent reputation and large following in the English airgun matches...

After the match was over on Saturday with an hour and ten minute drive back home that gave me a good chance to think over all I'd seen and what I'd learned at the Holbrook match and I arrived home with my plans catalized by the chain of events of the day...

As soon as my hat and coat were off, I called Jim Stanis at Precision Airguns and finalized the order for the AA S400MPR_FT in .177 caliber... Mainly because this gun would appear to be the best choice (chance?) of a gun to come out of the box brand new and with minimal testing and setup, be competitive in the indoor AGBR matches... And this particular gun has been shot by Jim Stanis and he says it is "good"... My plan is this gun should be very usable with the rest and bags I presently have that I use with my rimfire target rifles. The rest being a Caldwell Rock BR competition rest with Protektor bags and the match style stock on this MPR is one I am very familiar with.

But it goes further... After seeing all the setups Saturday, Dave Shattuck's benchrest gun and setup, Doug Shea's, Todd Banks with their custom made BR stocks, as well as the others that were there and how they are set up for benchrest shooting as well as me shooting Paul bendix's Theoben in .22 caliber on the Pappas rest, I spent Sunday thinking about all this and how Paul's Theoben worked together with the Pappas rest and listening to the discussions of indoor vs outdoor AGBR shooting and by Monday afternoon, I'd added another phase to my plan... After all, I'm hooked, lets start thinking ahead, good weather is getting close...

Monday afternoon I called Jim Stanis back and ordered a second gun, an S400-ERB in .22 caliber with the beech sporter stock...

This will be my new project gun replacing the AR-2078A in the workshop for a few months while the S400-ERB is transformed into a full fledged benchrest gun...

First step of the new project will be to evaluate and test the gun for suitability as a competitive shooter and once I'm satisfied with it, the barrel and action and airtube assembly will get married to a new stock suitable to set and ride in a Von Ahrens or Pappas rest... Hopefully this new gun will be ready by the time outdoor ABGR matches begin at Holbrook...

And it goes on, in for a dime, in for a dollar!!! (I think that's how my Grandmother Taylor used to put it)... The sleigh has run away with the horse...

Sometimes timing is everything... Talk about putting the cart in front of the horse, I develop this plan, start to purchase the gear and the very next day I learn that the Von Ahrens rest that I've been drooling over for the past year has just become available... A telephone conversation confirms that it will become part of my collection of gear and hopefully by March 7th Match at Holbrook, if Murphy stays out of my hair and way, I'll be there with a complete setup of my own to start testing and shooting...

And then the fun begins!!!:D:D:D

Happy Shooting, Y'all...

Mitch & Shadow...
 
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I learned long ago that 'instant success' can set you up for disappointment. I hope you keep a positive outlook and don't get discouraged when you start shooting outside !!!

I have also learned that costly equipment doesn't seem so expensive when it makes you look more skillful than you actually consider yourself to be.
 
crb said:
I learned long ago that 'instant success' can set you up for disappointment. I hope you keep a positive outlook and don't get discouraged when you start shooting outside !!!

I have also learned that costly equipment doesn't seem so expensive when it makes you look more skillful than you actually consider yourself to be.
Click to expand...


Hi Ray,
I couldn't agree with you more however I see Saturday as the catalyst and evolutionary step of a plan several months in the making rather than as an instant success...

Coming home Saturday after shooting Paul's Theoben and picking up my Chinese air rifle on my own indoor range quickly put everything back in perspective...

The good thing about Saturday was it being the catalyst I needed to push me over the edge as far as the decision making process of my plan to get involved with AGBR and as they say, the rest is now hinged on the arrival of the brown box truck and how well I have made the choices of the items I have selected... Only time will tell...

As to costly equipment, I'm no stranger to that, I like quality equipment, you can get an idea of where I'm coming from here:

http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=244608

http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=247306

The following link takes you to a thread that I added some pictures and comments:

http://rimfireshooting.com/index.php?showtopic=2147&st=0


This last was my project gun for last fall...

Also, I recognize my success on Saturday quite realistically I believe, its going to take a lot of hard work for me to be able to repeat that success with all new gear... However I am optimistic that at some point in the future it will happen again and if it doesn't, I will not be disappointed, I am all too familiar with the variables along the way... One big variable for me will be learning how to read wind flags better for out door shooting, that is my Achilles tendon at this point... But now that I'm fully retired, I have the time to put into practice and learning...

Thanks for your interest and happy shooting,

Mitch & Shadow...
 
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Mitch,

The only thing I will add to your reality check is; it us took several months, and tons on frustration before we brought our gun around to being anywhere close to competitive. Mine took from last April (when our guns first arrived from Allen Zasadny) through 100% of the summer and into the fall, and Paul's took until this past Saturday before becoming capable of shooting those types of scores. And you were just lucky enough to be there!

Even with the best of the best doing our preliminary work, and paying him accordingly, we still had to rip everything, and I mean everything, down several times, adjust, tweak, and then re-adjust, clean, polish, and go through steps that we never anticipated in order to bring our guns up to the level of becoming wicked awesome shooters!

You may be one of the lucky ones with your new AA400MPF-FT, which by the way was my first choice when I was first looking into this game a year ago, and I'm sure after talking with you that even if you have to go through what Paul and I did, you will fully enjoy every second of it.

All I can say is this; now that Paul and I are both there and are able to fully appreciate what we have, this game is truly AWESOME!!!!

See you in March

Dave
 
Progress report 12 Feb...

The rifles arrived this afternoon right on schedule, I've unpacked them, checked them over, mounted scopes, and shot a few pellets out of each of them... There are no disappointments, they both shoot great for right out of the box...

Opening the first box was a surprise, what I was expecting as an S400-ERB in .22 cal. turns out to be an S400SL-FAC and the beech stock on it is really a nice peace of craftsmanship. Its a lot more gun than I was expecting it to be...

I had purposely chosen the beech stock as I intend to replace it with a BR style stock and it was the most economical way to get a barreled action/airtube assembly to build up a BR gun and this beech stock is handsome in its own right...

Another surprise, I was expecting this to be a gun with a plain barrel and no moderator and the gun I received has the fully shrouded barrel with internal moderator...

After shooting about 15 pellets out of it, I really like the side lever bolt assembly, its much easier and smoother than the conventional bolt on the MPR FT gun... This S400SL-FAC looks like its going to be the perfect choice for building into a benchrest gun...

The second of the two guns, the S400MPR-FT is a real sweetheart to shoot, about the only thing I see about it that I now wish was different is the fact it has the conventional bolt action. But that is purely hind sight as a result that I have fired the SL-FAC with its incredibly smooth side lever action...

Now its a matter of waiting for the new pressure tank to arrive so I can start shooting these guns seriously and evaluate the accuracy of each however this afternoon on my cellar 10 meter range, they both stack pellets in one hole during a quick checkout...

And the fun begins...

Happy Shooting Y'all...

Mitch & Shadow...
 
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Don Stith [ St Louis Plains Rifle Co banner above ] makes some nice solid wood or laminate BR stock blanks. He could probably do a semi-inleted blank off of the original stock. The stock in the pics below he calls the 'Dart'.

Stithstock.jpg

Rem40xlhfullinprogress.jpg

40xcf223arrhrearfull.jpg
 
Mitch & Shadow..; If you like the way the Air arms rifles shoot now; you'll love them once a tin of pellets have been put through them. They'll continue to get better the more you shoot them. Mine did . kirby
 
I would really think hard about the theoden rapids. Spend your money right the first time and you won't have to by 3 rifles before you get a contender.
john
 
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