brian roberts
New member
Yes, as I have stated....................
numerous times, there is GOA, Gunowners of America. Yes, they have solicitations, but not as, no, FAR LESS than nra. I find I help them out a couple times a year, AND instead of sending that help in a postage-paid envelope to Sacramento Californication, I send it to Virginia as I figure they can use it best without somebody else taking their "cut" for the convenience of centralization. There even seems to be more NEWS in their newsletter, that I never see in the nra rag.
And recently Wayne LePooper said in his column that VA "...workers were OUTraged that they HAD to turn Veterans names over to the FIB (aka fbi before Waco) under the law....." And, how the nra got that law "repealed". Well, that law, in case any of you know or not, was called the Veteran's Disarmament Act by GOA, and it allowed a Veteran to be denied the right to buy a firearm if they couldn't take care of their financial matters. The sad part is, that the right was taken away without any judicial review, no court proceedings, and, once the right is taken away, it is imPOSSible to get back, as the BATF has been forbidden to take the funds for review from anywhere else in their budget....by CONGRESS. But your congressman will tell you to submit an application to the BATF to get it restored, which the BATF will not accept, said application.
And, that law (above ), the nra just got repealed?? Well, it just happens to be the law that sarah brady an' carolyn mc carthy called a news conference for when it got passed. Oh, an' Wayne LaPooper was there, too. He was there because sarah an' carolyn were PRAISING the nra for finally comin' around and helping to get MEANingful gun control passed....I think even chuckie shumer may have been there too. Funny, on one side they get it passed (YAY!!) from one side, then they get it repealed (YAY!!) from the OTHER side, too. What a game!! Is that called "talkin' outta both sides of their mouth" ??
As far as Wayne's salary, its estimated to be around 1.2 Mil with all the free travel, retirement, etc., etc. he gets. He has acess to a private jet, too, which is probably George W Bush's old learjet, which was his "favorite airplane"; and that was Barry Seal's old jet before he was killed, the same jet George and one of his brothers was arrested in, with 2 keys of coke, in Miami, I believe. I think Jerry Falwell flew in that jet, too. If only jets could talk...........
numerous times, there is GOA, Gunowners of America. Yes, they have solicitations, but not as, no, FAR LESS than nra. I find I help them out a couple times a year, AND instead of sending that help in a postage-paid envelope to Sacramento Californication, I send it to Virginia as I figure they can use it best without somebody else taking their "cut" for the convenience of centralization. There even seems to be more NEWS in their newsletter, that I never see in the nra rag.
And recently Wayne LePooper said in his column that VA "...workers were OUTraged that they HAD to turn Veterans names over to the FIB (aka fbi before Waco) under the law....." And, how the nra got that law "repealed". Well, that law, in case any of you know or not, was called the Veteran's Disarmament Act by GOA, and it allowed a Veteran to be denied the right to buy a firearm if they couldn't take care of their financial matters. The sad part is, that the right was taken away without any judicial review, no court proceedings, and, once the right is taken away, it is imPOSSible to get back, as the BATF has been forbidden to take the funds for review from anywhere else in their budget....by CONGRESS. But your congressman will tell you to submit an application to the BATF to get it restored, which the BATF will not accept, said application.
And, that law (above ), the nra just got repealed?? Well, it just happens to be the law that sarah brady an' carolyn mc carthy called a news conference for when it got passed. Oh, an' Wayne LaPooper was there, too. He was there because sarah an' carolyn were PRAISING the nra for finally comin' around and helping to get MEANingful gun control passed....I think even chuckie shumer may have been there too. Funny, on one side they get it passed (YAY!!) from one side, then they get it repealed (YAY!!) from the OTHER side, too. What a game!! Is that called "talkin' outta both sides of their mouth" ??
As far as Wayne's salary, its estimated to be around 1.2 Mil with all the free travel, retirement, etc., etc. he gets. He has acess to a private jet, too, which is probably George W Bush's old learjet, which was his "favorite airplane"; and that was Barry Seal's old jet before he was killed, the same jet George and one of his brothers was arrested in, with 2 keys of coke, in Miami, I believe. I think Jerry Falwell flew in that jet, too. If only jets could talk...........
S
Signguy
Guest
$27 X 160 hrs = $4320 gross/Mo X .80 = $3456 net/Mo X 12 = $41,472 / Yr. Not a whole lot these days. Just getting by.
You also got to figure in the retirement, health insurance, sick leave, personal leave,
paid holidays ect.. That all cost money to the employer. Also, if and when they get laid off, they receive unemployment benefits. If they are hurt on the job, they are paid and also can get retrained if they cannot come back to work. All of these things add up to mucho dollars to the employer.
I am self employed, I am all out here alone with NO assistance and right now I wish I was "just getting by" with 4320.00 gross. That number is per person as well. Usually there are two people working in the house now a days.
We have done all this to ourselves my grandfather always told me he did not see why people expected to make it on 40 hours a week. He said that was no God given right.
As far as the NRA and there stuff from China, I wish they would save the money and not send that stuff out. It is all a bunch of crap anyway.
Tim
You also got to figure in the retirement, health insurance, sick leave, personal leave,
paid holidays ect.. That all cost money to the employer. Also, if and when they get laid off, they receive unemployment benefits. If they are hurt on the job, they are paid and also can get retrained if they cannot come back to work. All of these things add up to mucho dollars to the employer.
I am self employed, I am all out here alone with NO assistance and right now I wish I was "just getting by" with 4320.00 gross. That number is per person as well. Usually there are two people working in the house now a days.
We have done all this to ourselves my grandfather always told me he did not see why people expected to make it on 40 hours a week. He said that was no God given right.
As far as the NRA and there stuff from China, I wish they would save the money and not send that stuff out. It is all a bunch of crap anyway.
Tim
P
Prepper
Guest
I know this this is an old thread, but thank you. Google NRA + China and yours is the third link result. Just joined the NRA and got my official NRA member's shooter's cap with a disgusting tag reading Made in China. I'll be sending my letter to Lapierre, though it doesn't look like it'll do a damned bit of good.
T
TRA
Guest
The UAW's health ins is probably 27.00 per hour. The reason business cannot hire US workers is the baggage that comes with them, and it's getting worse. Ya want health care, pension plans, sick leave, maternity leave, holiday pay, weeks of vacation, you better look to walmart.
It's not the hourly wage, it's the overhead costs that have bankrupted the American Businessman. We're about 1 yr from insurance costs of 1000.00 a week, per man. If you are one that has your health care provided for you, you don't have a clue of what this costs.
When you go to work today, think about someone who is forking over about 200.00 today just for your ins premiums, then you expect to be paid, ya want air conditioning in the shop, cummin right up, and you just crashed how many 1" Ski-Carbs.
It's not the hourly wage, it's the overhead costs that have bankrupted the American Businessman. We're about 1 yr from insurance costs of 1000.00 a week, per man. If you are one that has your health care provided for you, you don't have a clue of what this costs.
When you go to work today, think about someone who is forking over about 200.00 today just for your ins premiums, then you expect to be paid, ya want air conditioning in the shop, cummin right up, and you just crashed how many 1" Ski-Carbs.
This is the same bulls--t line you get from anyone you write to complaining about their support of the CHICOM government. LL Bean is one example that I have been sparing with for years over the issue.
I think your position on NRA promotionals is right on the mark. I think the NRA shouldn't offer a promotional if they can't get it made in the USA for a "reasonable" cost. To get it from China is an abomonation!!!
There is no hope for us if the pinheads that run these companies and organizations continue to think like this. ABC did a recent piece on a US home. THey took out everything made elsewhere and then furnished and equipped the whole house with USA made items, and did it cheaper than buying foreign goods. THe only foreign thing they had to buy in deference to cost was a stove(vs high end Viking) and a coffee maker. IT CAN BE DONE!!! In reality it's just easier for the NRA to put an order in and not expend any effort to determine where it comes from. Shame on the NRA for this!! --Greg
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O
Octopus
Guest
In "politically correct" terms then NRA has lost touch with its members. They have become a money grubbing bunch. It can't be said any plainer than that.
Nat this was well said! I can not add much.
When I upgraded from Life member to Endowment member in 2006 I got charged double. Once on my credit card and once on the check I had send NRA. For the next three years I wrote letters and never got an answer back or a refund. Prior to this I usually donated a few hundred dollars a year to NRA. Since NRA never answered any of the dozen or more letter I mailed I concluded that communications with NRA was a one way path. I stopped all donations to NRA in 2007 until they would correct the billing error. I get a letter a week requesting $ which will continue to go into the can.
NRA does a good job in many respects but they are not in communications with the membership.
Nat this was well said! I can not add much.
When I upgraded from Life member to Endowment member in 2006 I got charged double. Once on my credit card and once on the check I had send NRA. For the next three years I wrote letters and never got an answer back or a refund. Prior to this I usually donated a few hundred dollars a year to NRA. Since NRA never answered any of the dozen or more letter I mailed I concluded that communications with NRA was a one way path. I stopped all donations to NRA in 2007 until they would correct the billing error. I get a letter a week requesting $ which will continue to go into the can.
NRA does a good job in many respects but they are not in communications with the membership.
jackie schmidt
New member
Last year, we went out to the Veterans cemetary on Veterans Day, and they had a small American Flag on every grave. I looked at one, and guess what, it WAS NOT made in China.
It was made in Singapore. You would think that there would be somebody in the USA that could furnish those.
A few years ago I bought one of the NBRSA World Team Pins. Guess where it was made.
I have a love-hate relationship with the NRA. They are the ONLY lobbying entity that backs up the second Amendment 100 percent. In todays politicol climate, you have to play hard ball, and be ruthless. They do that very well.
But, while I do support the NRA, I often catch myself holding my nose at the stink......jackie
It was made in Singapore. You would think that there would be somebody in the USA that could furnish those.
A few years ago I bought one of the NBRSA World Team Pins. Guess where it was made.
I have a love-hate relationship with the NRA. They are the ONLY lobbying entity that backs up the second Amendment 100 percent. In todays politicol climate, you have to play hard ball, and be ruthless. They do that very well.
But, while I do support the NRA, I often catch myself holding my nose at the stink......jackie
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Pete Wass
Well-known member
Nra
Being a member of the NRA has always been a Love/Hate relationship for me. I know they do a whole lot to help keep our rights to posess firearms but I detest their constant solicitations. It seems no sooner do I send in my membership fee than in comes an offer to renew for two more years. I have often wondered if the right hand knows what the left is doing there or if this is part of the plan to keep folks sending in money they don't need to.
If it weren't for needing the NRA membership to be a member of some of the clubs I am a member of, I would cease to be a member of NRA. I have gone some years without renewing my membership because of the constant solicitations. Enough Allready NRA!
With regard to their gifts for whatever, I would rather have nothing than something made in a foreign country. Do you hear Ross Perot's echo? I hear it quite often.
Being a member of the NRA has always been a Love/Hate relationship for me. I know they do a whole lot to help keep our rights to posess firearms but I detest their constant solicitations. It seems no sooner do I send in my membership fee than in comes an offer to renew for two more years. I have often wondered if the right hand knows what the left is doing there or if this is part of the plan to keep folks sending in money they don't need to.
If it weren't for needing the NRA membership to be a member of some of the clubs I am a member of, I would cease to be a member of NRA. I have gone some years without renewing my membership because of the constant solicitations. Enough Allready NRA!
With regard to their gifts for whatever, I would rather have nothing than something made in a foreign country. Do you hear Ross Perot's echo? I hear it quite often.
W
wolf gray
Guest
I hesitate to join this thread for fear of popping up on the NRA's radar. I renew my membership 5 years at a time. I have been a member ever since I started shooting in the mid 60's. They rarely send me any promotional literature thank goodness. I get a renewal note before my 5 yr deal runs out. I get the National Rifleman magazine and the Shooter's Illlustrated magazine they print and that's about all. On the other hand, another group I USED to support(as of last year), CCRKBA(Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms) sends me junk almost every week. I wrote and asked for some info as to how the funds they solicit are used and never got an answer. I now throw their stuff in the trash. Are there any other GOOD pro 2nd ammendment groups out there? I heard someone mention GOA but am not familiar with them. I think CCRKBA spends the money I sent them on mailing me more junk mail !
Best,
Dan Batko
"Where are we going and why am I in this basket?"
Best,
Dan Batko
"Where are we going and why am I in this basket?"
R
RemVS308
Guest
Gun Owners of America (GOA) is about as solid as it gets on Second Amendment issues. They send out a quarterly newsletter, and usually there's a solicitation for donations that accompanies that. I bet they'd send you a copy if you requested one - www.gunowners.org .
Much smaller than the NRA, and thus probably much less "influential". You can bet if Larry Pratt were running the NRA, they wouldn't be caught dead slow dancing with Harry Reed, or buying trinkets from China....
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S
squeakie
Guest
WRONG! They are in the "clearing group", and thats about $5 less if you have the senority to hold that job. There are folks driving fork trucks working right beside the guy making $22 an hour, but earning $14. The guy cutting a pinion gear in 1980 made about $8 and hour. Cut five gears every three minutes, and held them to about .002". Plus he ran two Fellows shapers, a pair of gear shavers and on occassion a gear hone. He deburred these parts as well as cleaned the prior to heat treat. Now that same guy runs five Gleason hobs spitting out 3 gears each every fifty seconds. He also runs four gear shavers (actually he will normally run two, but with a back log run four) two deburr machines, and two CNC chuckers cutting gear blanks. Of course this guy earns about $25 an hour, and cuts gear with about 1/3 the amount of error in them. On a good day without much tooling trouble (hob cutters do wear out), and the two double spindle chuckers run well; he'll easilly do 8600+ gear a shift. What this computes out to is that Bud back in 1980 had just about a penny in the gear (labor), and not counting somebody else blanking the gear out on a chucker or screw machine. Today that same guy would have $.0029 in the same gear with him doing everything except to move the raw stock and finished stock.
In 1980 they cut an automatic transmission case on a transfer machine (J.L.Lamb). Usually cut about 300 cases a shift with about ten men keeping the machine going (it was a big mutha). Now they use a series of K&T and G&L machine centers to do the same job. This is to give them flexability). These CNC machine centers are feed via robotic cars. Theres also a parts washer and a robotic deburr unit just ahead of the washer. The centeral bore is done via a custom design boring complex (there are two of them). One man runs everything! Another person loads and unloads the pallots, while another guy takes care of the tooling. There are an electrician and a machine repairman assigned to the area as well (there was also the same with the transfer machine). Basicly you five men putting out the same amount of cases per shift, but they are much better quality which makes it easier for assembly. Now this is high dollar stuff, but the line never ever shuts down unlike the transfer machine. If you have a break down; you still got all the others cutting parts. In a years time you get about 20% more parts this way, and they are better and cheaper in the end. With the exception of the job setter and the two skilled tradesmen; these folks are making about $25 an hour. I could make this list go on and on, but the real problem is that these folks running machines are actually way less than half of the employees. You have a large amount of skilled tradesmen these days (on the work floor) as downtime is critical. Yet you have about the same amount of people in the front office! They don't make a part. You have engineers that have never been on the work floor! You have clerks making more money an hour than an electrician trouble shooting a CNC machine center. Then you get the little ditty called "affirmative action"! That means you gotta have so many folks of this sex or this color, or the Fed won't let you do business (thank you Jimmy Carter). You mid level managers with no employees!! And really no job!
gary
S
squeakie
Guest
big difference these days. You ain't setting on a truck of anykind without a license. There are no 19 year olds driving one, unless he's handicapped. One crash and your done. There are so many restrictions on them and where they can go that it's almost crazy (insurance companies are behind a lot of it). You bump into something, and you probably just spent $20K. Somebody has a crash and everybody with anykind of a license is in there taking a dope test. They have the right to follow you around and even video tape your driving. I had a license to drive everything from a crane (Drot or a Broderson mostly), plus high lifts and who knows what else. Somebody in east mongolia had a problem, and we all were in there do dope tests and refresher courses. They are serious these days about saftey! You are expected to do an inspection of the truck, crane or whatever before you ever get in it, and you'd best sign off the paper work, or they send you home for a month.
gary
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squeakie
Guest
you probably have better insurance than most UAW workers have. To be exact most everybody does anymore! And when you retire you loose about half of what you did have!
Workers do not have sick days, and have not for about fifteen years. You get sick, and it comes out of your vacation unless your in the hospital. I think you'll find some of the things you blame a UAW worker for are mandated from the Fed (under a Republican president by the way). Most pension plans these days are 401K based, and eventually will be entirely 401K based. I have a 401K, and the folks I worked for contributed exactly zero to it! Yours probably did! I do recieve a pension, but looking around it's a joke. The local cops and firemen get 50% more (and they ain't union before you ask). I could care less about them getting this, and as far as I'm concerned they deserve it. On the otherhand I kinda have a problem with a Lt. Col. in the Army getting a $4800 a month housing allowence! (and of course they are non union)
gary
M
max.burgess
Guest
Its pretty good these CEO making 6&7 figure income & getting 5 &10 mil in bounces bitching about some one getting holiday pay and vacation pay making 20 dollars an hour.
brian roberts
New member
Jackie, I have to disagree w/you on that one, the nra does not back the 2A 100%. They back it whatever way they want, whatever is convenient, that's why I went on that rant about them backing a bad law that got passed, and getting compliments from the commies, sarah brady and carolyn mccarthy. Then, about 18mos later, when they worked to get it repealed, they blew their own horn about that, too. Nah, I think I'll stick w/GOA. And, for all those guys that would like to NOT HAVE TO belong to nra, get your ducks in a row, info-wise, talk to people in your clubs. With the net now, info is much easier to obtain in a timely manner, and you can show people what is going on, get that part repealed, so you don't HAVE TO belong to the nra. When the bucks stop coming thru the door, the nra'll stop stompin' you to the floor. But they can't hear you over the deafening roar, of all those dollars, fluttering through the door....
I agree with some of you but if the NRA goes away so do we. There are people with power that don't like the faked you owen guns, and tell me what part of this world we live in is not about making money. There should only be one law on the books. If you commit a crime with a gun it should be life in prision. sit with Charles Manson for a while. The criminals would go back to knifes.
Joe Salt
Joe Salt
jackie schmidt
New member
Joe, I agree. I never could understand the concept of "attempted murder". What does that mean, you meant to kill another person, but they got lucky, or you were a bad shot. If you brandish the firearm with the intent of having it aid in the committing of a crime, then you are just as evil as if you had killed.
If a person commits a crime with a weapon in hand, that means he has the intent of killing. If a person committs a crime and feels that for his success, he must use a firearm, that should be Life in Prison..........jackie
If a person commits a crime with a weapon in hand, that means he has the intent of killing. If a person committs a crime and feels that for his success, he must use a firearm, that should be Life in Prison..........jackie