New Rock Creek / Muller Works MI barrel install

[center22]

The Shilen Ratchet has been my go to barrel ... have them on three rifles (Sporter, 10 1/2, 13 1/2) all are very good shooters and for the most part not finicky when it comes to ammo selection. However, I have read good things about the Rock Creek / Muller MI (button rifled) barrels and some are doing extremely well in the larger matches. These RC/M barrels have been hard to come by, but I finally got one from Charlie Scott and received it last Friday.
Since I perform solely my own smithing, I chucked the RC/M barrel up in my South Bend lathe on Monday. The length of the blank was 28 1/2" and the diameter was .900 straight. I threaded the shank 3/4 X 16 tpi, crowned the muzzle to a finished length of 26 3/4". Then removed the 25 1/8" Shilen Ratchet barrel from my 10X XIII action which is bedded in a Stith stock. When I had the headspace right, I chambered the breech with a new PTG Calfee II reamer. I did not mill the extractor slots at this time as I prefer to shoot the rifle before completing this process. Since both barrels were the same diameter, I was able to transfer the Hoehn/Harrell tuner to the RC/M barrel.
Tuesday, I took the rifle to the range to test fire it and attempt to get a decent tuner setting. It was a windy day and not ideal for testing. but I set my wind indicator and flags out and made the best of it. I started by shooting some odd lots of Eley Match in the 1055 - 1060 range. The fired cases had to be removed from the chamber manually, as there was no extractors in the bolt. Beginning with a tuner setting of 200, 100, 0, 25, 50, 75, 125, 150, 175, 225, 250, 275, 300, 325, 350, 375 and when I hit 400 the group really opened up. The best setting was between 350 to 375, so I worked those numbers and came up with a preliminary tuner setting of "366". Ironically, the tuner setting I was using on the Shilen Ratchet .900 barrel was "368" ... only two clicks difference.
At a tuner setting of "366" the RC/M MI was punching single hole groups at 50 yards in tricky conditions. I also had good lot of Lapua Center X in my bag and thought I would give it a try. Cleaned the bore and fired about 10 warm up shots ... the next three shot group of Center X was a small bug hole in the 10 ring of a USBR target. Needless to say, I was extremely impressed with the Rock Creek Muller Works barrel on its first outing. I have a club match on July 10th and will see how it functions under match conditions.
This evening, I pulled the barrel and milled the extractor slots. The XIII action is extracting well and the ignition is great! John

 

[rkcal22]

As you get older you find out that there is no one way-everything in life has a positive and negative . To shoot bug holes at the range that John does is very hard since we can have flags moving in 3 different directions . It's good to see John putting up a very good barrel being used by a very good shooter. Now the negative is that John is a friend-fellow shooter and someone I have to shoot against in the matches. I now have to dig deep to get my game going against him and also have to look for my lucky rabbits foot I lost 50 years ago. Richard

 

[center22]

Richard,
Yesterday, when I was at the range, Bobby Moe showed up (our club's best savvy shooter) without his equipment and sat in a chair directly behind my bench, as I was cranking on the tuner. My rifle was sitting in my new Pappas one piece rest, then he said, hey your (Nightforce) scope is canted quite a bit to one side. I never noticed it, but after checking it with my small precision level placed on the elevation knob, he was right. I made the necessary correction and it helped a lot. Thanks Bobby.

We started our rimfire benchrest matches at Hollywood Rifle & Pistol Club, a little over two year ago, we use USBR targets. Back then, if anyone shot a 700 + 3 card aggregate score it was impressive. Now, if you don't shoot a 725 or better agg., you don't even have a chance at placing in the unlimited match. Of course, the equipment and ammo quality that our guys and gals are using, has much improved too. Richard and Bobby shoot custom rifles with Falcon actions and Shilen Ratchet barrels installed by Richard Gorham. We have one gentleman who has two Flash Ebert Turbo's, plus a Remington 40x built by Gordon Eck and another 40X originally built by Gene Davis. The competition is getting stronger by the month. By the way, Richard is our Match Director and does an excellent job! John

 

[center22]

Further testing with the Rock Creek / Dan Muller barrel

For those who may be interested:

The last several days have been much windier than normal for this time of year, with a mixture of rain and thunderstorms.

I had removed a perfectly good shooting Shilen Ratchet .900" barrel from my XIII action BR rifle and replaced it with a RC/Muller Works 4 groove MI 16 twist in .900" diameter. The Shilen Ratchet barrel was no slouch ... it had taken 1st Place in the last club match and 2nd Place in the match prior to that. So most would say I had to be crazy to do such a foolish thing, but to me, it's not all about winning, but the learning experience from experimenting with new components ... even if the project failed. Hey, I could always re-install the good shooting Shilen barrel and I am back at square one.

Today, I went back to the range do some further testing with the new RC/M barrel to see if my tentative tuner setting of "366" would still hold up and to see how the MI barrel would shoot in the wind. We shoot USBR targets in our club matches, but I had some ARA targets in my vehicle, which many of you shoot in competition and thought I would give them a try. I set out my wind flags and indicators, then placed the ARA target in a frame at 50 yards. Each target was shot with a different lot of Eley Match ammo and I did not clean the bore between targets.

Target #1 - Score: 1775 7X - E.M. lot # 1011 06266
Target #2 - Score: 2000 7X - E.M. lot # 1012 06305
Target #3 - Score: 2175 12X - E. M. lot # 1013 05071

My first target could have been better, but I did not catch a few fast wind switches that cost me three "25's". I did not go back to sighters after my first 6 or 7 warm up shots on each target, with one exception. On target three, a few of the members wanted to change targets when I had 8 shots left for score. My rifle sat for about 7-10 minutes until the range went hot. I fired one shot into a practice bull and it was a "100" after sitting ... the next eight shots were for score. I like a barrel that will wait for you and still shoot to POA. I believe this RC/M barrel is going to be an excellent choice. Only time will tell. I have no ties to any company, just a hobbyist and a competitor. John

 

[Brian_K]

Nice write up, thanks for that John.

The RC/Muller barrels do seem to be the barrel to own at the moment, not that we’ll see many over here.

But I’m trying

Brian

 

[Peter Armstrong]

Nice write up, thanks for that John.

The RC/Muller barrels do seem to be the barrel to own at the moment, not that we’ll see many over here.

But I’m trying

Brian

Brian

Some of these Müller/RC barrels are getting out of the US, I've got 2 of them, so it can be done.

Peter

 

[center22]

Nice write up, thanks for that John.

The RC/Muller barrels do seem to be the barrel to own at the moment, not that we’ll see many over here.

But I’m trying

Brian

Brian,

Several months ago, Dan Killough had a few of the Rock Creek Muller barrels listed on his website for a couple of days. I purchased one of the Sporter profile barrels and still have it sealed in the original shipping carton. I should have gotten a .900 straight at the time, but they sold out so quickly.

I had contacted "Charlie Scott" with reference to another item, and I asked him if he still sold barrels? His answer was yes and mentioned a few brand names, which I was not particularly interested in. I then said, you wouldn't happened to have any of the new Rock Creek / Muller MI barrels in stock, would you? His reply was, I have "one left" in .900" straight. My immediate responce was - send it down! That's how I acquired the RCM barrel.

From what I understand, Dan Muller's shop is pretty much a one man operation. He button rifles the barrels and hand laps them himself ... which is time consuming and labor intensive.

I am not a trained professional and if I can fit a blank to the action, crown and chamber it in one day, without any slugging. Then take the rifle to the range and tune it within two days ... the "Muller Works Button" has to be an exceptionally accurate hand lapped barrel. John

 

[Brian_K]

From what I understand, Dan Muller's shop is pretty much a one man operation. He button rifles the barrels and hand laps them himself ... which is time consuming and labor intensive.

John,

I hear from reliable sources in the US that Dan's lapping is second to none, undoubtedly contributing to his barrels working so well.

Moves are afoot to acquire one (or two), but it may be a lengthy process, as luck would have it I have a very fine Broughton that still has a lot of life left in it (I hope).

Brian

 

[center22]

Broughton's are fine barrels

John,

I hear from reliable sources in the US that Dan's lapping is second to none, undoubtedly contributing to his barrels working so well.

Moves are afoot to acquire one (or two), but it may be a lengthy process, as luck would have it I have a very fine Broughton that still has a lot of life left in it (I hope).

Brian

Brian,

I agree, Broughton's are fine barrels. A while back, I purchased a 40X which had a Benchmark 2 groove reverse tapered barrel. It was a decent shooting rifle, but I just didn't feel it was competitive enough, even at our local matches. After I acquired my lathe, I purchased a Broughton 5C blank with a Ross taper. It was my first ever threading job, (after watching some "you tube" video's) and it turned out very nice. I also replaced the synthetic stock with a Stith 250 straight line, which I pillar bedded. The 40X with the Broughton 5C was shooting very competitively at our club matches, but I decided to build a new rifle in the same weight class, using a 10X XIII action, Shilen Ratchet, with a Stith stock.

I sold the 40X / Broughton 5C to a another club member who is shooting it very competitively ... he's right near the top in our matches. Even when he outshoots me in a competition, I feel a little pride in the fact that I built his rifle. LOL For some reason Broughton barrels are not as popular as they were a year or two ago, but if a BR rifle is built right the Broughton's are capable of winning most matches.

Good luck on importing a couple of Rock Creek / Muller MI's, as I realize getting shooting related component's to England is not easy ... the Muller's are extremely accurate barrels. John

 

[Pete Wass]

Lapping:

I asked the owner of a company that makes rifles and the barrels for them. That companies rifles are very accurate for Factory rifles. I said to him, "you must have a very good person lapping your barrels with all of them shooting as well as they do. He replied, "We have a machine that laps all our barrels. Nothing is more accurate than a machine". May be something to that I am thinking. Not to say that Dan isn't as good as the machine you understand because he is making some good ones. I was surprised to hear that a lapping machine exists. I had never heard of one.

 

[linekin]

Brian,

I agree, Broughton's are fine barrels. A while back, I purchased a 40X which had a Benchmark 2 groove reverse tapered barrel. It was a decent shooting rifle, but I just didn't feel it was competitive enough, even at our local matches.
Center 22. I have the same setup & was wondering what your experiences were to believe it wasn't competitive. Obviously accuracy but why. I have been having troubles with mine
Keith

 

[Mel Eck]

Pete

Dan Muller lapping a barrel versus any machine Iwould bet the farm on Dan PERIOD .

 

[crb]

Brian,

I agree, Broughton's are fine barrels. A while back, I purchased a 40X which had a Benchmark 2 groove reverse tapered barrel. It was a decent shooting rifle, but I just didn't feel it was competitive enough, even at our local matches.
Center 22. I have the same setup & was wondering what your experiences were to believe it wasn't competitive. Obviously accuracy but why. I have been having troubles with mine
Keith

You need to gain access to a borescope and check out the chamber reaming job and also the crown. I have been surprised [ and disappointed ] to find burrs on the side of the rifling on many [ most ] of the BR bbls I have looked at since I bought my borescope. Go to the gunsmithing forum below and scroll down to the 'polish the throat' thread and then browse through it until you come to Dave Tooley's post [ #9] about burrs in the chamber.

Good Luck

 

[Pete Wass]

Probably you're right Mel

Dan Muller lapping a barrel versus any machine Iwould bet the farm on Dan PERIOD .

I intend to find out once my Rock Creeks wear out. They seem to shoot better the more I use them. I don't, and that is a problem but after the season is over I am going to get new eyes.

 

[center22]

Brian,

I agree, Broughton's are fine barrels. A while back, I purchased a 40X which had a Benchmark 2 groove reverse tapered barrel. It was a decent shooting rifle, but I just didn't feel it was competitive enough, even at our local matches.
Center 22. I have the same setup & was wondering what your experiences were to believe it wasn't competitive. Obviously accuracy but why. I have been having troubles with mine
Keith

Keith,
The Benchmark was used, so I didn't know how many rounds went down the tube. The barrel was installed by Gene Davis and to be honest I just didn't put the enough time into it, to see what kind of accuracy I could tweak out of it. Some guys shoot very well with the two groove BM barrels. John

 

[center22]

Today's (non sanctioned) USBR match

For those who may be interested:

Today was a regular club match at the Hollywood Rifle & Pistol Club, Dania Beach, FL. We use USBR targets in a three card aggregate (non-sanctioned) match with eleven shooters in attendance.

For me, today would be a test of how well the .900" Rock Creek Muller MI barrel compares to the Shilen Ratchet .900" barrel I removed from my XIII rifle. Using the XIII /Shilen Ratchet combo on 6/22/13 I shot an agg. score of 729 13X for 2nd Place / on 6/29/13 I shot an agg. score of 730 18X for a 1st Place. All very good scores in USBR.

Today, 7/10/13 with the Rock Creek Muller MI barrel installed on the same XIII rig, I fired the following targets - 245 5X / 247 9X / 248 7X for an aggregate total of 740 21X which should hold up as a new club record for our Unlimited BR matches. I was using the same 1013 Eley Match - 5 machine ammo in all of the above matches. Conditions were excellent today which may have help, but the RC Muller is a dynamite barrel! John

Bolt tool, XIII rifle and firing pin strike photos added.

 

[Brian_K]

but the RC Muller is a dynamite barrel! John

John, now your just really trying to rub it in aren't you


Keith, I had a Benchmark some time ago (not sure of the rifling), it had a sporter profile with the dog knot on the end (not legal over here). That barrel would shoot:

That was at 25yd indoors, nevertheless an indication of it's potential.

I fired the following targets - 245 5X / 247 9X / 248 7X for an aggregate total of 740 21X which should hold up as a new club record for our Unlimited BR matches.

Nice, you should join us for the BIPM World Postals: http://www.benchpostal.com/index.html a bit of fun, scores from IR50/50 and RBA (check scoring ring sizes first) targets are acceptable.

Brian

 

[center22]

Nice, you should join us for the BIPM World Postals: http://www.benchpostal.com/index.html a bit of fun, scores from IR50/50 and RBA (check scoring ring sizes first) targets are acceptable.

Brian[/QUOTE]

Brian,

I will have to look into shooting the World Postals. At present, I do not have any targets you referred too above, but I should not have a problem acquiring IR 50/50 targets. We have been shooting USBR targets at our club for at least two years, and no one has ever shot a 250 in a match. The 10 ring is a green circle that is .100" diameter ... less than half the diameter of a .224" round. To obtain an X, the bullet hole must completely cover the .100" circle with a plug inserted. Many of our club members practice often ... and to the best of my knowledge, none has ever shot a 250 on a USBR target. John

 

[jerryg22]

Shooting with you has always been a pleasure John. I've learned a lot from you in the short time I have come out for our club's matches. Congrats on the 740. If anyone can shoot a 250 it may turn out to be you.

 

[linekin]

You need to gain access to a borescope and check out the chamber reaming job and also the crown. I have been surprised [ and disappointed ] to find burrs on the side of the rifling on many [ most ] of the BR bbls I have looked at since I bought my borescope. Go to the gunsmithing forum below and scroll down to the 'polish the throat' thread and then browse through it until you come to Dave Tooley's post [ #9] about burrs in the chamber.

Good Luck

Ray, Pete W has graciously offered to do just that for me as I don't have a bore scope or any idea of what to look for. I may know more Sunday. Its a great group of guys in this sport it seems as the guys I shoot with have been helpful & a lot of you here on the forum have been as well. Thanks guys!
Keith