New Lathe Ideas

B

bpctcb

New member
I will be buying a new lathe for hobby gunsmithing; specifically precision rifle work. I have a budget of $12k to buy 1 lathe. Where is what I'm looking at so far for a new lathe:

PM1340GT, spindle has 1.5625" bore & 13.75" length, 40" between centers, D1-4 camlock, 1350#, made in Taiwan, 5 year warranty

PM1440GT, spindle has 2" bore and 15.5" length, 40" between centers, D1-5 camlock, 1750#, made in Taiwan, 5 year warranty, has foot brake.

SB Heavy 10, spindle has 1.358" bore & 13.625" length, 30" between centers, D1-4 camlock, 543#, made in Taiwan, 1 year warranty

SB Heavy 13, spindle has 1.57" bore & 20.875" length, 30" between centers, D1-5 camlock, VFD appears to be factory installed, 1870#, made in Taiwan, 1 year warranty, has foot brake.

Grizzly G0740, spindle has 1.57" bore & 20.875" length, 40" between centers, D1-5 camlock, 2420#, made in Taiwan, 1 year warranty, has foot brake.

I've also looked at Kent, Sharp and Eisen lathes.

I'm leaning towards the PM1440GT with PM1340GT as second choice.

Is there anything I'm missing here? Any other lathes I should be considering?

Thanks,
BP
 
Last edited:
question about your budget..what is left for tooling ?

have you looked at lo milage used ?
i scored on a $13000 just over 1 year old, for 4500.
with some tooling and 2 axis dro
 
retired said:
question about your budget..what is left for tooling ?

have you looked at lo milage used ?
i scored on a $13000 just over 1 year old, for 4500.
with some tooling and 2 axis dro
Click to expand...

I have a separate tooling budget. I won't buy used unless I can inspect it first, and there isn't much of anything used within driving distance of OK.

BP
 
I have a Grizzly G4003G and a SB Heavy Ten.

I'm happy, no complaints, no issues BUT....

I nearly lost a thumb/arm/life in the Grizzly.

I WOULD BUY A LATHE WITH A BRAKE!

Foot brake, belly brake, whatever. IMO it's a worthy addition.
 
alinwa said:
I have a Grizzly G4003G and a SB Heavy Ten.

I'm happy, no complaints, no issues BUT....

I nearly lost a thumb/arm/life in the Grizzly.

I WOULD BUY A LATHE WITH A BRAKE!

Foot brake, belly brake, whatever. IMO it's a worthy addition.
Click to expand...

Wow! Glad you are alive. I figured the foot Brake was important. I was nearly killed 3 weeks ago when I was hit by a Freightliner while transporting my lathe (the whole reason I am lathe shopping) and safety is important to me.

I'm trying to get spindle length info on a Eisen 1440EV as it looks like a possible viable option for me.

Thanks,
BP
 
BP,

I see that you're paying attention to spindle length, which indicates to me you're looking to chamber through the headstock. Know that a chuck is going to add 5 or so inches to that length, so if you want to indicate the barrel in on the outboard side of the headstock, the shorter the spindle length, the better.

Now having said that, many an accurate rifle has been built on lathes that have a long headstock that did not permit indicating the barrel in on the outboard side. Two notable shooters/gunsmiths who do this are Mike Bryant and Jackie Schmidt, both of whom had developed work arounds for this issue. There aren't any flies on the rifles they build. One not so notable shooter/gunsmith who has chambered this way is Yours Truly. Using this method and a work around I came up with for my lathe, I built a couple of stupid- accurate live varmint guns for a friend, as well as recrowning a handful of barrels. Had I not sold the lathe, I'd still be chambering this way on it.

So...I think the first step would be deciding what way you want to chamber, and then choosing a machine that is going to allow you to do it that way.

If you do a search of "barrel chambering" on this forum, you'll see a bunch of different ways to chamber a barrel, on a bunch of different lathes.

As in life, the lathe you ultimately choose will likely be a compromise of sorts. But accurate rifles can be built on these compromise lathes.

Justin
 
bpctcb said:
Wow! Glad you are alive. I figured the foot Brake was important. I was nearly killed 3 weeks ago when I was hit by a Freightliner while transporting my lathe (the whole reason I am lathe shopping) and safety is important to me.

I'm trying to get spindle length info on a Eisen 1440EV as it looks like a possible viable option for me.

Thanks,
BP
Click to expand...

The Safety Thing..... as regards hobby lathes.

An Opinion.



I go to work each day, work in a construction environment and we are attuned and attentive to safety all the time.

"Always ON"

I come home and turn off. I relax...... moreover, I go down and putter around in the shop TO relax.

I DON'T WANT TO BE "ON" when I'm on the lathe!!!

I am here to unwind..... to relax and enjoy the fruits of my labors.

When I start feeling time pressure and multi-tasking and ramping up into work mode, I consciously tamp it down. This is a HOBBY for me. Accuracy is FUN!

I sucked my thumb into a slowly turning barrel while wearing a glove. HUNDREDS, (thousands?) of hours on the lather and NEVER ONCE had I worn a glove.

But I did.

Once.

And $3,000.00 later I'm absolutely thankful to have a functional thumb.

I keep a picture of the glove and the (cleaned up and repaired) thumb tacked up above the lathe.
 
Zebra13 said:
BP,

I see that you're paying attention to spindle length, which indicates to me you're looking to chamber through the headstock. Know that a chuck is going to add 5 or so inches to that length, so if you want to indicate the barrel in on the outboard side of the headstock, the shorter the spindle length, the better.

Now having said that, many an accurate rifle has been built on lathes that have a long headstock that did not permit indicating the barrel in on the outboard side. Two notable shooters/gunsmiths who do this are Mike Bryant and Jackie Schmidt, both of whom had developed work arounds for this issue. There aren't any flies on the rifles they build. One not so notable shooter/gunsmith who has chambered this way is Yours Truly. Using this method and a work around I came up with for my lathe, I built a couple of stupid- accurate live varmint guns for a friend, as well as recrowning a handful of barrels. Had I not sold the lathe, I'd still be chambering this way on it.

So...I think the first step would be deciding what way you want to chamber, and then choosing a machine that is going to allow you to do it that way.

If you do a search of "barrel chambering" on this forum, you'll see a bunch of different ways to chamber a barrel, on a bunch of different lathes.

As in life, the lathe you ultimately choose will likely be a compromise of sorts. But accurate rifles can be built on these compromise lathes.

Justin
Click to expand...

Justin,

I have yet to chamber my first barrel. I suspect I will try most all methods to see what I like best. I've spent hours reading on this forum and will undoubtedly read much more. I pay special attention to anything posted by Mike Bryant.

I have the opportunity to spend $12k on a lathe and I want to make the most of it. I want to buy once, cry once then get to working on rifles.

Thanks for everyone's input.
BP
 
machine tools and any type of loose clothing or long sleeves, long hair, gloves are a no go. don't care how slow something is moving it is always too fast. Machines don't care they just keep on trucking.
Glad you survived the glove incident.
To the op happy that you were able to survive the freightliner incident. Those portable mountains don't leave much standing after they pass through or over.

I would vote for the griz unit only because they generally are pretty good on the customer service side from my experience and the owner is a centerfire br competitor. additional they have a out board assembly for the spindle to allow for chambering through the head. that unit is a d1-5 chuck mount. there is more available in tooling for that configuration than a d1-4.

Import lathes in general have 3 levels , 1 all china parts and put together there- bottom of heap 2 various parts sourced from all over chicom area but assembled and finished in Taiwan 3 same as 2 but specs are held much tighter generally referred to as made in T vs assembled in T.
My own lathe is a Birmingham- middle of the road about 12 years ago 14x40( you really want the 40 " there - as was said you lose 5-6" when the chuck is installed) there is at least 10 other names on the same unit right now ( some of the old classic names as well). as with all this stuff they are contract made/assembled to a price point and it takes some hefty digging and phone calls to get the specs on the motors and bearings beyond the run out stuff. Mine is a3 phase unit, but I will say that the china motors when using a VFD to get 3 phase are not the way to go, they do not seem to mix well. ( i have 3ph in my shop so not an issue but something to be aware of)
 
we need to start a birmingham owners club.
mine came in thru a dealer on the west coast.
14x40 oil system halogen light 2 axis dro

blades said:
machine tools and any type of loose clothing or long sleeves, long hair, gloves are a no go. don't care how slow something is moving it is always too fast. Machines don't care they just keep on trucking.
Glad you survived the glove incident.
To the op happy that you were able to survive the freightliner incident. Those portable mountains don't leave much standing after they pass through or over.

I would vote for the griz unit only because they generally are pretty good on the customer service side from my experience and the owner is a centerfire br competitor. additional they have a out board assembly for the spindle to allow for chambering through the head. that unit is a d1-5 chuck mount. there is more available in tooling for that configuration than a d1-4.

Import lathes in general have 3 levels , 1 all china parts and put together there- bottom of heap 2 various parts sourced from all over chicom area but assembled and finished in Taiwan 3 same as 2 but specs are held much tighter generally referred to as made in T vs assembled in T.
My own lathe is a Birmingham- middle of the road about 12 years ago 14x40( you really want the 40 " there - as was said you lose 5-6" when the chuck is installed) there is at least 10 other names on the same unit right now ( some of the old classic names as well). as with all this stuff they are contract made/assembled to a price point and it takes some hefty digging and phone calls to get the specs on the motors and bearings beyond the run out stuff. Mine is a3 phase unit, but I will say that the china motors when using a VFD to get 3 phase are not the way to go, they do not seem to mix well. ( i have 3ph in my shop so not an issue but something to be aware of)
Click to expand...
 
bpctcb said:
Justin,

I have yet to chamber my first barrel. I suspect I will try most all methods to see what I like best. I've spent hours reading on this forum and will undoubtedly read much more. I pay special attention to anything posted by Mike Bryant.

I have the opportunity to spend $12k on a lathe and I want to make the most of it. I want to buy once, cry once then get to working on rifles.

Thanks for everyone's input.
BP
Click to expand...

BP,

If you're looking to try different methods of chambering, there are two basic set-ups. Running the barrel through the headstock, or setting it up between centers, utilizing the tailstock and steady rest. Most benchrest/accuracy gunsmiths utilize the through the headstock method, myself included. There are less variables doing it this way, and with the exception of flipping the barrel around to do the crown, everything else...tenon, threads, chamber...are done in a single set-up which is ALWAYS desireable, no matter what you're doing on a machine tool. This method also allows the use of an indicator to dial in the bore of the barrel.

A bazillion very accurate rifles have been built using the between the centers method as well, with the Bob Brackney method being popular. In fact, I see that Mr. Brackney finished near the top in the most recent shoot in Arizona, undoubtedly shooting a rifle he built. That he can shoot a little bit certainly helps. I've used this method as well and got a very accurate gun out of it. To use this method, you will need a lathe with a longer bed...something on the order of 40".

Short headstock and a long bed, and you'll be able to use either method.

Justin
 
just remember the most accurate position/location on a lathe is the headstock and its bearings.
why work anywhere else if you have a choice ?
 
I was in the exact same position as yu were in the beginning of the year. I was very close to getting the pm1440gt as I believe it is the best quality lathe you can get without going to industrial type machines, and I would put a sharp in that category (i.e. light duty industrial machines).
I think if I hadn't found my Austrian Emco v13, which is a light duty industrial machine, I would have gone with the 1440gt. I doubt you would need more machine, and Matt has a great reputation for customer service. I picked up some tooling from his site and am also very happy.
3 phase with a vfd is the way to go!
The 1340gt was tops on my list until the 1440 came along and I don't think the 1340 is leaving anything on the table for a chambering lathe. I used a 9" southbend for a few years and built a gun that set some records with it!
Eisen is a very similar machine, but Matt claims slightly different specs that set his stuff apart.
Have fun with your search and post pics when it comes in!
 
I have a 1340GT and a 1440GT, both great machines and great value IMO, the reason I added the 1440 was the 2" spindle.
Matt P
 
Lots of good input here; thanks!

I'm still leaning towards the PM1440GT with Eisen 1440EV being my second choice.
The Eisen is appealing due to its weight (~2300#) and built in VFD, but the 1.56" x 17.17" spindle bore is hard to fall in love with compared to the PM lathes. I don't think I can go wrong with either PM lathe or the Eisen. I'll stew on it a bit more then pull them trigger (probably tonight).

Thanks,
BP
 
bpctcb said:
Lots of good input here; thanks!

I'm still leaning towards the PM1440GT with Eisen 1440EV being my second choice.
The Eisen is appealing due to its weight (~2300#) and built in VFD, but the 1.56" x 17.17" spindle bore is hard to fall in love with compared to the PM lathes. I don't think I can go wrong with either PM lathe or the Eisen. I'll stew on it a bit more then pull them trigger (probably tonight).

Thanks,
BP
Click to expand...

As you have found out, there are multitudes of choices in small lathes that are intende for "hobby use".

If you are staying on the $5000 to$6000 range for the basic machine, I doubt there is much difference in any of them. If you want to step up in quality, say to an Acer or equivalent, you are talking $12,000+ range.

The main concern is it has at least a 1.5 spindle hole, and a headstock short enough so that if you choose to chamber through the headstock in the conventional manner, you can with little hassle.
 
Justin, You can make and use a cathead on either end of your spindle and greatly reduce the length. The Emco Meier is a great lathe.
 
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