Gentleman
Here is what the nbrsa posted on there website located on the home page.
SLOUGHHOUSE 2010
NBRSA 1000 YARD NATIONAL
CHAMPIONSHIP
These are the standings at the end of day 2 when the match was stopped and later cancelled because of safety and weather. After time and discussion with many shooters, it was decided not to reschedule the last day. This canceled the National Championship awards since the National course of fire was not completed. There will be no 2010 National recognition for this match year.
Marty have you ever been to a Nationals that was cancelled because it rained or did they follow there own rules and continue the match the next day.
If you have no intention of following the rules why have them?
If your organization has a member in charge that won't allow you to follow the rules what should be done?
You keep saying we should enjoy the sport but keep ignoring the obvious.How can you enjoy the competition when someone in charge refuses to follow the rules ending a National Level Match without a winner?
Are you guys that desperate?
Lynn
Here is what the nbrsa posted on there website located on the home page.
SLOUGHHOUSE 2010
NBRSA 1000 YARD NATIONAL
CHAMPIONSHIP
These are the standings at the end of day 2 when the match was stopped and later cancelled because of safety and weather. After time and discussion with many shooters, it was decided not to reschedule the last day. This canceled the National Championship awards since the National course of fire was not completed. There will be no 2010 National recognition for this match year.
Marty have you ever been to a Nationals that was cancelled because it rained or did they follow there own rules and continue the match the next day.
If you have no intention of following the rules why have them?
If your organization has a member in charge that won't allow you to follow the rules what should be done?
You keep saying we should enjoy the sport but keep ignoring the obvious.How can you enjoy the competition when someone in charge refuses to follow the rules ending a National Level Match without a winner?
Are you guys that desperate?
Lynn
This is my last post on this subject.
Rules are guidelines, as are laws subject to interpetation, you've heard of the court system in America?
The weather went foul and a decision was made to end the match, many shooters do not have the time or finances to stay and extra day, I am sorry that the decision did not fit your agenda, but for many it did. Move on. Practice hard and shoot at the next event. Have fun and enjoy the freedoms you have. Not everyone is as lucky.
Have a great day!
Marty
PS The only thing I am desperate for is to shoot the next match IBS or NBRSA and do my best.
Rules are guidelines, as are laws subject to interpetation, you've heard of the court system in America?
The weather went foul and a decision was made to end the match, many shooters do not have the time or finances to stay and extra day, I am sorry that the decision did not fit your agenda, but for many it did. Move on. Practice hard and shoot at the next event. Have fun and enjoy the freedoms you have. Not everyone is as lucky.
Have a great day!
Marty
PS The only thing I am desperate for is to shoot the next match IBS or NBRSA and do my best.
I usually only post with good hearted humor and fun but this time I have to respond to all this aggravated assault on our shooting sport by one individual on every Benchrest Central Forum post that he can get his repeated attack that he got short changed by not being able to finish a tournament event. The majority of us that enjoy our shooting sport know that sometimes things just don’t go our way, but most of us don’t go into a several month rant on how that made my life a living hell because of it. Most of us have heard you loud and clear that you have your pants in a wad and have a personal vendetta against three individuals that you feel kept you from possibly having a great shoot, but you are not alone in our shooting sport, many of us have come so close to glory at an event but something has kept us from it. We talk to other shooters on what if, then pack up and go home till the next shoot we look forward to.
Either you are the Problem or the Solution!!!! If you have such a big issue with the way the NBRSA is ran you can either just shoot by yourself someplace or the bigger picture why don’t YOU become a DIRECTOR for your Region and work on the changes you think will make our organization Better!!!!!
Either you are the Problem or the Solution!!!! If you have such a big issue with the way the NBRSA is ran you can either just shoot by yourself someplace or the bigger picture why don’t YOU become a DIRECTOR for your Region and work on the changes you think will make our organization Better!!!!!
Lynn,
I don’t know you. And you certainly don’t know me. I would remember someone who calls me a “coward”.
I am the current Eastern Region Director, and on the Board. By your definition I must be one of the "cowards" who hasn't responded. I would have responded earlier, but I was having trouble with my password since I hadn't logged on in while. We "cowards" have trouble like that on occasion.
I can’t speak for the other directors, but my read is that most normal people wouldn’t respond to what you have written here because it doesn’t help us get to a reasonable resolution. I, personally, am of the opinion that everyone gets a chance to voice their opinion, but those who do also run the risk of showing that they are uninformed and self-serving. Let’s move forward without that assumption yet determined.
First, the problem with airing your grievances in a public forum like this is you get to take your shots without standing face-to-face with someone and getting their perspective. Sometimes that "perspective" may not be pleasant in person. When one gets personal, it gets out of the realm of what the organization is trying to do and it gets nothing more than just that: self-serving and personal. Much like the telephone conversation that you had with our President where it degenerated in to a one-sided name-calling event. I would believe that nothing positive came from that discussion.
If you want to have a discussion with any of us on the Board, show up to the National meeting or come to one of the same matches that we attend and have a mature "discussion". If you want to have a mutual discourse, we can talk. I am open to any mature discussion. Beyond that, we all take our chances.
That being said, I can only speak for what I have been told and what you have written in your package. I wasn't at the match. I don't shoot long-range and currently in the NBRSA that falls under the auspices of the guys who you are calling out as doing something not in the best interest of the sport. I have no dog in this fight. But, I don’t like to see our sport become so fragmented that we lower ourselves to beating each other up. There are certainly a whole lot more people outside of benchrest that would like nothing more than to see us go away. Those are the ones we should be taking on; not ourselves.
What you fail to understand is that our rules, as they exist today, don’t cover everything. Where the NBRSA regulations, by-laws or minutes don't cover something, it is the Match Director who has the discression to do what is in the best interest of the sport and the competitors at that match. And he/she has a responsibility to do so safely and without regard to a one person's special interest. How did the match director act in your situation? Don't respond here; bring it to the Board in a manner that allows all of us to learn from this and move forward positively.
What you are accusing these guys of is pretty serious and needs to be addressed by the organization. I’m not saying neither you nor them was right (can’t – because I wasn’t there). But, if the match director let it go and it wasn’t covered under our existing rules, it seems to be that we are in a little quandary.
The right way to do that is to not blast these guys in a one-sided manner in an open forum. Rather, if should be addressed with those who can help bring it to resolution. This is happening; although it may not be in the same time frame that you personally want to see it work. I know that our President has asked those of us directors not involved to come up with some way to address your letter and the finalization of the 2010 match. Give us a chance to do something. But, I will tell you that whatever is done will be to the positive benefit of the sport as a whole; not to punish someone who you may think is not a "good guy" (certainly not the words that you used to describe us).
I do this part time and for the enjoyment of the game. And I do it voluntarily because I love the game and most of the shooters in it. I still work (quite a few hours) and this is a hobby for me. To have to address some shot from across a keyboard from some guy who doesn't know me and the sport in general is not in my job description.
Let the system work and a resolution will be made. We do that even though today you aren't a current member of the NBRSA. If you wish to rejoin and help us enjoy the sport positively, we can see if that makes sense. I would support your rejoining if you declare that we work together to make the sport better.
My number is in the newsletter if you wish to discuss this with me personally. If you don't catch me, leave a message and I will call you back. In the meantime, how about sticking to a positive way to resolve the issue instead of calling people you don't know names.
Snivelingly yours,
Joe Krupa
I don’t know you. And you certainly don’t know me. I would remember someone who calls me a “coward”.
I am the current Eastern Region Director, and on the Board. By your definition I must be one of the "cowards" who hasn't responded. I would have responded earlier, but I was having trouble with my password since I hadn't logged on in while. We "cowards" have trouble like that on occasion.
I can’t speak for the other directors, but my read is that most normal people wouldn’t respond to what you have written here because it doesn’t help us get to a reasonable resolution. I, personally, am of the opinion that everyone gets a chance to voice their opinion, but those who do also run the risk of showing that they are uninformed and self-serving. Let’s move forward without that assumption yet determined.
First, the problem with airing your grievances in a public forum like this is you get to take your shots without standing face-to-face with someone and getting their perspective. Sometimes that "perspective" may not be pleasant in person. When one gets personal, it gets out of the realm of what the organization is trying to do and it gets nothing more than just that: self-serving and personal. Much like the telephone conversation that you had with our President where it degenerated in to a one-sided name-calling event. I would believe that nothing positive came from that discussion.
If you want to have a discussion with any of us on the Board, show up to the National meeting or come to one of the same matches that we attend and have a mature "discussion". If you want to have a mutual discourse, we can talk. I am open to any mature discussion. Beyond that, we all take our chances.
That being said, I can only speak for what I have been told and what you have written in your package. I wasn't at the match. I don't shoot long-range and currently in the NBRSA that falls under the auspices of the guys who you are calling out as doing something not in the best interest of the sport. I have no dog in this fight. But, I don’t like to see our sport become so fragmented that we lower ourselves to beating each other up. There are certainly a whole lot more people outside of benchrest that would like nothing more than to see us go away. Those are the ones we should be taking on; not ourselves.
What you fail to understand is that our rules, as they exist today, don’t cover everything. Where the NBRSA regulations, by-laws or minutes don't cover something, it is the Match Director who has the discression to do what is in the best interest of the sport and the competitors at that match. And he/she has a responsibility to do so safely and without regard to a one person's special interest. How did the match director act in your situation? Don't respond here; bring it to the Board in a manner that allows all of us to learn from this and move forward positively.
What you are accusing these guys of is pretty serious and needs to be addressed by the organization. I’m not saying neither you nor them was right (can’t – because I wasn’t there). But, if the match director let it go and it wasn’t covered under our existing rules, it seems to be that we are in a little quandary.
The right way to do that is to not blast these guys in a one-sided manner in an open forum. Rather, if should be addressed with those who can help bring it to resolution. This is happening; although it may not be in the same time frame that you personally want to see it work. I know that our President has asked those of us directors not involved to come up with some way to address your letter and the finalization of the 2010 match. Give us a chance to do something. But, I will tell you that whatever is done will be to the positive benefit of the sport as a whole; not to punish someone who you may think is not a "good guy" (certainly not the words that you used to describe us).
I do this part time and for the enjoyment of the game. And I do it voluntarily because I love the game and most of the shooters in it. I still work (quite a few hours) and this is a hobby for me. To have to address some shot from across a keyboard from some guy who doesn't know me and the sport in general is not in my job description.
Let the system work and a resolution will be made. We do that even though today you aren't a current member of the NBRSA. If you wish to rejoin and help us enjoy the sport positively, we can see if that makes sense. I would support your rejoining if you declare that we work together to make the sport better.
My number is in the newsletter if you wish to discuss this with me personally. If you don't catch me, leave a message and I will call you back. In the meantime, how about sticking to a positive way to resolve the issue instead of calling people you don't know names.
Snivelingly yours,
Joe Krupa
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jackie schmidt
New member
Enlighten Us
For us short range Shooters, enlighten us on what degree of inclimate weather will force a Registered 600 or 1000 yrd Match to be canceled.
I have never been to a Registered 100-200 yard match that was canceled for any reason. I have seen it raining so hard that we woould be standing in 4 inches of water, but we still shot. I have shot when it was so darned cold you could not feel the trigger, and the wind blowing so hard that you had to aim on a spot on the target frame just to hit paper. Never have I seen a Match called. Delayed for fog, but never canceled.
In fact, in 100-200 yard, you shoot as long as you can see something to shoot at.
So, without having to trudge through the rule book, exactly when do Long Range Shooters say "that's it".
For us short range Shooters, enlighten us on what degree of inclimate weather will force a Registered 600 or 1000 yrd Match to be canceled.
I have never been to a Registered 100-200 yard match that was canceled for any reason. I have seen it raining so hard that we woould be standing in 4 inches of water, but we still shot. I have shot when it was so darned cold you could not feel the trigger, and the wind blowing so hard that you had to aim on a spot on the target frame just to hit paper. Never have I seen a Match called. Delayed for fog, but never canceled.
In fact, in 100-200 yard, you shoot as long as you can see something to shoot at.
So, without having to trudge through the rule book, exactly when do Long Range Shooters say "that's it".
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Doug Penttinen
"TESTED TEXAS TUFF"
Anti-m anti-m..................
Jackie, I've seen a few canceled. Never a National. The 1,000 yard Nationals I've been to (all IBS) always have a rain day built into the schedule. This is the club's responsibility, not the IBS's.
That said, there are two things different about a 1,000 yard match, the target, and seeing.
The target paper is significantly lighter than what is used for point-blank benchrest. And bigger. As it get wet, it gets very hard to handle, and very hard to score. All that area also gives the wind more opportunity to blow a target loose, or just tear.
Use better and heavier paper stock? It's 42-inches square. Pretty expensive, if it could be done.
And seeing. Next time it gets to raining pretty good, see how far down the road you can see. 100, 200 yards, not too bad. Over half a mile, not so good. You just can't see the target. Since it's harder to see, "bad" conditions last longer -- sometimes all afternoon.
The final thing is pits. There is suppose to be a protective overhang, but it's for bullets, and many don't have a deep one. If the wind's coming from the wrong direction, you get very wet. OK for the shooters alternating pit duty, I suppose, but the other people who have to spend eight hours out in the pits might rebel. Pit duty is a bit rougher than changing targets, at least when done well.
jackie schmidt
New member
Thanks Charles......jackie
Joe Krupa
If you were to ask the president about our conversation and he was honest with you he would tell you this.I told Lynn I could care less about 600/1000 yard benchrest and could care less if it went away all together.This coming from the president of the shooting organization I belonged to is what led me to calling him a tucking prick twice.
As to me being self serving there are alot of guys who attended the match that are madder than I am.They write me e-mails and call me on the phone and ask me to post here.I believe I included some of the e-mails in your packet.
As to my membership with the nbrsa your president refunded my membership fees without being asked to do so and that e-mail was also included in your packet.
As to the rules not covering the situation at hand that is just plain false.The rules dictate that the match must be carried over to the next day and this was argued with the regional director and the vice president of the nbrsa.
Your president said if I had called him on the last day of the match this is exactly what would have happened.Again if he was honest with you he would tell you that.The rule was clearly understood by several of the shooters and the president of the nbrsa but the vice president would not listen to anyone nor does he ever.
The E-Mails I sent you in the packet show very clearly what the vice president was all about.Please take a minute and see who they are from.Also ask yourself why the nbrsa lost colorado and who was involved.
The conclusion of the 2010 nbrsa 1000 yard nationals has already been finalised and the decision is posted on the nbrsa website.It does not suprise me that you don't know about it as the whole thing has been one big sweep under the table.
I will however give you a phone call and fiil you in on what has really been going on as I truly don't think many are aware of what has been taking place out here.I will be as civil as is possible.
Jackie
As Charles has said the targets are 42"X42" and they get stapled onto multiple sheets of cardboard stacked together.The cardboard resembles a "door" in size and it is bolted into a target frame with a big weight on it for balancing purposes.The target frames are made out of pine as they tend to get shot up and need regular replacings.
At the nationals the wind was blowing 35 mph and it was raining.The targets were wet and the cardboard backers were also wet plus they had several days worth of bullet holes in them which tends to blow out the centers.The wind would either blow the targets off of the cardboard or blow a hole through the center.The staples don't do well on wet paper and the pit crew is less than enthusiastic about getting wet.In that kind of wind the frames will also move back and forth and the weak ones will snap on occasion.
Monday the next day the weather was absolutely perfect.
To everybody else.
I have been competing at the same club for many years now and have seen many things take place that have caused myself not to finish as well as I would have liked too.If you know any of the shooters who compete there you could ask them how I am to shoot with and not one single bad thing will be said.
I don't mind losing and I don't mind getting beat and until recently I was probaly the biggest supporter/promoter of the nbrsa 600/1000 yard shooting game.
I don't however want to see one extremely well know rotten apple destroy the biggest match of the year.
Lynn
If you were to ask the president about our conversation and he was honest with you he would tell you this.I told Lynn I could care less about 600/1000 yard benchrest and could care less if it went away all together.This coming from the president of the shooting organization I belonged to is what led me to calling him a tucking prick twice.
As to me being self serving there are alot of guys who attended the match that are madder than I am.They write me e-mails and call me on the phone and ask me to post here.I believe I included some of the e-mails in your packet.
As to my membership with the nbrsa your president refunded my membership fees without being asked to do so and that e-mail was also included in your packet.
As to the rules not covering the situation at hand that is just plain false.The rules dictate that the match must be carried over to the next day and this was argued with the regional director and the vice president of the nbrsa.
Your president said if I had called him on the last day of the match this is exactly what would have happened.Again if he was honest with you he would tell you that.The rule was clearly understood by several of the shooters and the president of the nbrsa but the vice president would not listen to anyone nor does he ever.
The E-Mails I sent you in the packet show very clearly what the vice president was all about.Please take a minute and see who they are from.Also ask yourself why the nbrsa lost colorado and who was involved.
The conclusion of the 2010 nbrsa 1000 yard nationals has already been finalised and the decision is posted on the nbrsa website.It does not suprise me that you don't know about it as the whole thing has been one big sweep under the table.
I will however give you a phone call and fiil you in on what has really been going on as I truly don't think many are aware of what has been taking place out here.I will be as civil as is possible.
Jackie
As Charles has said the targets are 42"X42" and they get stapled onto multiple sheets of cardboard stacked together.The cardboard resembles a "door" in size and it is bolted into a target frame with a big weight on it for balancing purposes.The target frames are made out of pine as they tend to get shot up and need regular replacings.
At the nationals the wind was blowing 35 mph and it was raining.The targets were wet and the cardboard backers were also wet plus they had several days worth of bullet holes in them which tends to blow out the centers.The wind would either blow the targets off of the cardboard or blow a hole through the center.The staples don't do well on wet paper and the pit crew is less than enthusiastic about getting wet.In that kind of wind the frames will also move back and forth and the weak ones will snap on occasion.
Monday the next day the weather was absolutely perfect.
To everybody else.
I have been competing at the same club for many years now and have seen many things take place that have caused myself not to finish as well as I would have liked too.If you know any of the shooters who compete there you could ask them how I am to shoot with and not one single bad thing will be said.
I don't mind losing and I don't mind getting beat and until recently I was probaly the biggest supporter/promoter of the nbrsa 600/1000 yard shooting game.
I don't however want to see one extremely well know rotten apple destroy the biggest match of the year.
Lynn
T
TedH
Guest
Well you know what is odd?
Even though I am normally an instigator who tries to get things going, this time that wasn't even my goal.
I was really interested in helping the NBRSA improving their web site to help shooters get to the Nationals.
I guess its a good thing I didn't mention 30BR being second class to 6PPC or precision target materials. No telling what would have happened.
Ted
Trouble just seems to follow me around.
Even though I am normally an instigator who tries to get things going, this time that wasn't even my goal.
I was really interested in helping the NBRSA improving their web site to help shooters get to the Nationals.
I guess its a good thing I didn't mention 30BR being second class to 6PPC or precision target materials. No telling what would have happened.
Ted
Trouble just seems to follow me around.
Lynn,
Thanks for the response. I look forward to your call. I promise not to snivel when we talk.
We don't shoot long range here in the Eastern Region. Those matches tend to be either IBS or Williamsport. Perhaps that is why it is less visible to us on this side of the country.
We all really need to move our sport forward. I do know that adressing the concerns of our shooters, all of them from the smallest local ranges to those guys who just shoot the big mathces, is what we need to be doing all of the time.
I don't mind being called a coward, but I really have been working on my chronic sniveling problem.
Regards.
Joe
Thanks for the response. I look forward to your call. I promise not to snivel when we talk.
We don't shoot long range here in the Eastern Region. Those matches tend to be either IBS or Williamsport. Perhaps that is why it is less visible to us on this side of the country.
We all really need to move our sport forward. I do know that adressing the concerns of our shooters, all of them from the smallest local ranges to those guys who just shoot the big mathces, is what we need to be doing all of the time.
I don't mind being called a coward, but I really have been working on my chronic sniveling problem.
Regards.
Joe