MY 7mm Barrel SUCKS!!!

Myself and four of my Friends all went to Walker County yesterday, braving the chilly 45 degree weather. (for us, that's cold).

Anyway, I put my 6BRbarrel back on my Rifle, and set out five flags at 400 yards, the first 50 paces from the Bench, and the rest evenly spaced.

Back to normal. I settle in on 29.8 grains of Varget behind a 108 Berger Match, which averaged 2850 FPS.

I shot several 1 1/8 or so five shot groups in a 10 mph switching wind. I have built some lager flags for out past 200, and we could see them quite well.

I also tried some H4350 SC, and while 43.5 grns yielded 2900+ FPS, agging capability was not that good. I switched back to my Varget load, and carefully watching the flags, shot two 5 shot groups that measured no bigger than .800 flat. That is sub "quarter minute of angle" accuracy.

One of my good friends was shooting his version of a 7mm based on the 6.5x55 case. It is necked up, and more or less Ackly Improved. He pushes the 180 Berger about 2875 out of a 30+ inch barrel. At 400 yards, he could not shoot as good of 5-shot groups as I could with the 6BR.

Maybe with no flags, the 7mm would show an advantage. But for what we will be shooting, (shooting 2 inch diameter clay discs at 400 yards), a good tuned 6BR shooting over flags will be very competitive.

That is, until Joe Duke shows up with his 7mm, based on his own modified 284 case. That thing is a killer.
 
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Thanks Jackie!
It is fun when a rig all comes together. Makes it seem effortless.

BUT. As you know. Some days its Chicken and some days feathers. I have endured lots of the feathers too.

Joe
 
Joe, here are the two groups I shot at the end of the day.
A 100 yard score target makes a great 400 yard target.

The Rifle and load are not doing anything "stupid", like suddenly so sing a shot 2 inches away.

The one thing I would like to change on the Rifle is the scope. It has a 8-32 NXS NightForce on it. I can't see the 6mm bullet holes at 400.

http://benchrest.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=18832&stc=1&d=1483994078

I'm thinking about 15x55 NightForce, or a 10x60 March.

http://benchrest.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=18831&stc=1&d=1483993504
 

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Francis you sound like

Fred Martin here at Orrington. He's locked up more than one action thataway! bonne année
 
Those are nice groups Jackie. Nice little round groups. That will hunt.
It doesn't much matter what caliber you shoot. It still comes down to a good barrel and good bullets. When either one is not so good, it gets frustrating in a hurry.
if you can't put out flags, then I figure the 7mm barrel is worth one or two extra clays over the smaller calibers.

The old nightforce 12 x42 benchrest model has always worked very well for us. One of the shooters from Huntsville has a march he really likes. It goes to 80x or some such crazy number.

Joe
 
Jackie,

I'm in the same boat I have a Brux 1-9 twist 1.250 straight for my HG and it gives me fits just as yours is. I could load it and shoot sub 2" at 600 yards and then take the same load five minutes later to 1k and it would be 3' all vertical. I could turn the paper 90* and have an absolute perfect water line.

I did everything I could to make it shoot at 1k just no luck with 4831sc so I got out the H4350 and worked a load and took it to 300 yards and bam one ragged hole for 15 shots. I had 5 more so I shot another group and again 1 ragged hole. Took it to 1k and 4.5" then 6" not what I call BR accuracy for 1k

Oh mines the 284 Shehane

This is 15 shots



593F74D8-0763-4F35-8D77-FBFC7C5F5F72_zps0fnozmqe.jpg
 
Jackie,

I'm to sure what primers you were testing with, but I found the CCI BR2 worked the best and you really need .004-.005 neck clearance. These bigger cases don't fair so well with tight neck clearance. Kinda like a big block it's gotta breath
 
James n TN said:
Jackie,

I'm in the same boat I have a Brux 1-9 twist 1.250 straight for my HG and it gives me fits just as yours is. I could load it and shoot sub 2" at 600 yards and then take the same load five minutes later to 1k and it would be 3' all vertical. I could turn the paper 90* and have an absolute perfect water line.

I did everything I could to make it shoot at 1k just no luck with 4831sc so I got out the H4350 and worked a load and took it to 300 yards and bam one ragged hole for 15 shots. I had 5 more so I shot another group and again 1 ragged hole. Took it to 1k and 4.5" then 6" not what I call BR accuracy for 1k

Oh mines the 284 Shehane

This is 15 shots



593F74D8-0763-4F35-8D77-FBFC7C5F5F72_zps0fnozmqe.jpg
Click to expand...


This wont go over well here, but if you want 1k Br accuracy, you need to tune at 1k. You have seen why. Positive compensation.
 
zfastmalibu said:
This wont go over well here, but if you want 1k Br accuracy, you need to tune at 1k. You have seen why. Positive compensation.
Click to expand...

You are correct. Out past 500 yards is a different game in the way you tune the Rifle.

Here is what I have learned as a short range Benchrst Shooter who is dabbling at a little longer yardages.

When going out to 300 and 400 yards, the grouping capability of the Rifle is paramount. With my 6BR shooting the 108 Bergers, I have had loads that had very tight velocity spreads group no better than .500 inches at 200 yards or 1 1/2 inches at 400 yards. The particular load I am shooting now, which give 1/4 minute of angle accuracy at both 200 and 400, had as much as 20 FPS spread in 10 shots. That would not cut it at 600 yards and further.

Much of this is due to the fact that at 400 yards, I have found that you can still read flags with a fair amount of precision, if you bother to build flags that you can actually see out past 250. Granted, you still have no idea what is going on in the 90 yards between each flag, but at least you can avoid reversals or general upswings and let ups in the same direction.

Of course, this is all predicated on whether a range allows flags. At many of these "Claybird" shoots, they don't. At Walker a County, where we will be shooting at 2" diameter clay discs at 400 yards, they treat it just like a typical 100-200-300 yard Match with flags.

This is just my opinion, based on my own range time.

Here is what the last three flags Of my five flag setup at 400 look like.


http://benchrest.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=18846&stc=1&d=1484238678
 

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zfastmalibu said:
This wont go over well here, but if you want 1k Br accuracy, you need to tune at 1k. You have seen why. Positive compensation.
Click to expand...

You are correct. Out past 500 yards is a different game in the way you tune the Rifle.

Here is what I have learned as a short range Benchrst Shooter who is dabbling at a little longer yardages.

When going out to 300 and 400 yards, the grouping capability of the Rifle is paramount. With my 6BR shooting the 108 Bergers, I have had loads that had very tight velocity spreads group no better than .500 inches at 200 yards or 1 1/2 inches at 400 yards. The particular load I am shooting now, which give 1/4 minute of angle accuracy at both 200 and 400, had as much as 20 FPS spread in 10 shots. That would not cut it at 600 yards and further.

Much of this is due to the fact that at 400 yards, I have found that you can still read flags with a fair amount of precision, if you bother to build flags that you can actually see out past 250. Granted, you still have no idea what is going on in the 90 yards between each flag, but at least you can avoid reversals or general upswings and let ups in the same direction.

Of course, this is all predicated on whether a Range allows shooters to set flags, and whether a Shooter has the skills to ascertain what they are telling him.At many of these "Claybird" shoots, they don't allow flags.. At Walker a County, where we will be shooting at 2" diameter clay discs at 400 yards, they treat it just like a typical 100-200-300 yard Match with flags.

This is just my opinion, based on my own range time. I am not shooting past 400 yards. That load that shoots so well at 200 and 400 would probably be atrocious at 600 due to the velocity spread.

Here is what the last three flags Of my five flag setup at 400 look like.


http://benchrest.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=18846&stc=1&d=1484238678
 
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Remember My 7mm, (284), that I could not get to shoot?

Well, I decided to give it another try. But with a significant change.

Upon talking to several friends, I decided to chop 2 inches off the barrel. When I first started this project, I wanted a full 30 inch barrel. The Krieger blank I got was 31 inches, so I cut the usual 1 inch from the muzzle.

Before screwing it back on, I cut 2 inches off, and rethreaded it for the Tuner.

Yesterday Ed Bernabeo I went to Walker County, where there is now one bench at 600 yards.

I started at 200'yards, with 55 grns of 4831 SC and the 180 Berger Hybrid just touching. The velocity over my Chrony was an average 2835.

It shot right off the bat. A couple of "threes" at 200. We then set up a five flag set to shoot out at 600.

http://benchrest.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=19696&stc=1&d=1499699514

This has turned into a very good shooting Rifle. Here are three 5 shot groups I shot at 600 in a 4 to 6 mph condition.

http://benchrest.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=19694&stc=1&d=1499699349

http://benchrest.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=19695&stc=1&d=1499699423

This is now 1/4 minute capable Rifle. My thoughts are that I did not get past the irregularities in the muzzle end of the blank when I just cut that one inch off of the blank. This thing is now shooting like a real Benchrest Rifle.

I didn't even try any other combinations, I'm thinking the new Reloader 16 and the 165 Berger might be a good combo as well.

http://benchrest.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=19697&stc=1&d=1499700091
 

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Nice groups Jackie. Get it tuned up for the 500 meter fly shoot.

Day in and day out, 4831-sc will be your go to powder.
Haven't tried Rel 16 but tried Rel 17 when it was new. It would build great velocities without pressure signs. This morning it might shoot great and two hours later shoot very poorly.

Joe
 
Joe Duke said:
Nice groups Jackie. Get it tuned up for the 500 meter fly shoot.

Day in and day out, 4831-sc will be your go to powder.
Haven't tried Rel 16 but tried Rel 17 when it was new. It would build great velocities without pressure signs. This morning it might shoot great and two hours later shoot very poorly.

Joe
Click to expand...

Joe, I will be at the NBRSA Group Nationals in Saint Louis when the 500 meter Fly Shoot takes Place.

Doc Martin is, however, having a 600 yard Clay Break Match next week end at Mike Cockcroft's Range. I am still a Novis at the Long Range Game, but I am going to go and toss some bullets down Range. This Rifle certainly seems capable.

What do you think about that cutting some off of the muzzle end and suddenly this Barrel comes to life? It's the only thing I did different. I have never had this problem before, because in the Short Range game, I always end up cutting several inches from the muzzle end as we are not trying to get as long of a barrel as possible.

Another note. The 2 inches I took off, (30" to 28"), didn't seem to affect the velocity that much at all. 55 grns of 4831 SC behind the 180 grn Berger still hits between 2800 and 2850.
 
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I am a little puzzled at why 2" would make it shoot as well. Normally, we buy the regular blanks that are 30" to begin with. Then just cut about one inch off the muzzle, face off the chamber end and chamber the barrel. You end up with a barrel 29" long that way. Have not seen the issues you experienced.
The only clue I might have is that you are now dealing with a barrel 50 percent longer than your standard short range barrel. If the barrel has any abrupt change in direction; and none are real straight, then you may not be getting the crown absolutely perpendicular if you are aligning the barrel like a short range barrel. This is just speculation and does not explain why cutting off 2" would make that much difference. May have just been an anomaly in that last 2" of barrel. The good news is that it now shoots.
I keep forgetting that the fly shoot conflicts with the nationals as the score nationals is the only one I am going to.
Doc's pig shoot apparently is a real test of equipment and your ability to see thru the mirage. I have not shot one yet but I bet mirage this time of the year is brutal.
We shot bottle caps at 200 yards at New Braunfels this past Saturday. They were filled with white plaster of paris and were extremely hard to see against a berm where the grass had turned brown from the dry and heat.
Have fun at the pig shoot. Any day spent shooting is a good day!

joe
 
Jackie, I've read post #52 and...

Jackie, I've read post #52 and... I'm wondering if there was a problem with your barrel at 28-30 inches.
If you had slugged the barrel, would you have notes inconsistencies at the 27-28 to 30 inch point?
Could cutting the extra 2 inches have made the barrel less 'whippy' (tongue in cheek)?
Long or overly long with barrels is not always the solution. Barrels of that length give you better definition when you use peeps, and may give you added velocity..?..

Your thoughts, please.

Phil Fortin aka tazzman
 
tazzman said:
Jackie, I've read post #52 and... I'm wondering if there was a problem with your barrel at 28-30 inches.
If you had slugged the barrel, would you have notes inconsistencies at the 27-28 to 30 inch point?
Could cutting the extra 2 inches have made the barrel less 'whippy' (tongue in cheek)?
Long or overly long with barrels is not always the solution. Barrels of that length give you better definition when you use peeps, and may give you added velocity..?..

Your thoughts, please.

Phil Fortin aka tazzman
Click to expand...

Phil, I think in my quest to have a full 30 inch barrel, I did not cut enough off the muzzle end. All of the manufactures say 1 inch, that is exactly what I cut off.

The reason I cut 2 inches off on the second try was because of the Tuner thread. I didn't want to have to recatch the Tuner thread, so I cut the entire thread off, which left a 28 inch overall length.

I did not slug the barrel, so I don't know if something was amiss in that last little bit. It indicated good, so I didn't have doubts. It just didn't shoot.

Since I doubt I lost any velocity, I don't know why I had this need for a full 30 inch barrel. This is my first effort into a true long range Rifle, so I followed others advice. But 2850 fps with a 180 Berger with no pressure signs seems to be a good combo.

In the end, I simply decided to do something that many might find drastic, chopping 2 inches off. But for me, it's a simple matter of chucking the barrel up, parting it off, recrowning, and threading for the Tuner.

I tried it, and it worked.
 
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Wonder if it would shoot better an inch shorter? :)

Keith Gantt told me a couple of days ago that trimmed and pointed (sharp pointed) bullets would hit the target almost a foot higher at 1000 yards. Increases velocity so to speak, and at longer ranges that would seem a good thing. More work for sure but if you have that "need to win" thing it's prolly a good thing to do.
 
jackie schmidt said:
Phil, I think in my quest to have a full 30 inch barrel, I did not cut enough off the muzzle end. All of the manufactures say 1 inch, that is exactly what I cut off.

The reason I cut 2 inches off on the second try was because of the Tuner thread. I didn't want to have to recatch the Tuner thread, so I cut the entire thread off, which left a 28 inch overall length.

I did not slug the barrel, so I don't know if something was amiss in that last little bit. It indicated good, so I didn't have doubts. It just didn't shoot.

Since I doubt I lost any velocity, I don't know why I had this need for a full 30 inch barrel. This is my first effort into a true long range Rifle, so I followed others advice. But 2850 fps with a 180 Berger with no pressure signs seems to be a good combo.

In the end, I simply decided to do something that many might find drastic, chopping 2 inches off. But for me, it's a simple matter of chucking the barrel up, parting it off, recrowning, and threading for the Tuner.

I tried it, and it worked.
Click to expand...
Bart said that he had a 30" barrel chambered for 6BR-AI that did not shoot up to expectations and he cut 2" off and added a Ezell tuner and it came alive. Maybe 28 inches is the magic length. James
 
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