Lathe question

Bearings are an investment for sure. To get a better idea look up ABEC Scale on Wikipedia.
You will find the 5 rankings ABEC1 to ABEC9. The differences are in the quality and quality costs.
ABEC1 .000295"
ABEC3 .000197"
ABEC5 .000138"
ABEC7 .000098"
ABEC9 .000047"
The cost is sometimes prohibitive but the lead time to get the ABEC you want may also be considerable.
If you want to find out the cost get your bearing number and call you local bearing distributor and ask what they would recommend ABEC wise for you equipment. Then ask the cost of the bearings you have vs the ABEC rated bearings you might like to buy.
Centerfire
 
Ian_Owen said:
While I am not a qualified engineer working through a thought process I have come to the conclusion that worn ways up by the chuck would possibly cause tapered threads (possibly) if chambering through the headstock (this would depend on how worn the ways are).........would this matter?? I don't know.
....Ian
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Worn ways, up by the chuck, will not cause any negative issues in barrel fitting. Scores along the longway axis, as opposed by ways that had major physical damage that runs perpendicular to the long axis, if they were really worn, say about 0.020" or more would only cause the carriage wings to drop slightly in the vertical plane.

The main issue that would cause problems if the ways were really worn would occur in heavy roughing cuts where the carriage wings could cause some tool vibration. You are not really going to do much roughing on a 10"-14" lathe anyway and finish of roughing cuts is a non issue anyhoo.

Excessive play in the spindle shaft, or if it is a bearing type spindle, can and usually will cause axial chatter in chamber reaming. This excessive spindle play and/or weak spindle housing bulkhead design (and cheap quality bearings) usually gives more chambering problems than any other single item in barrel fitting.

Spindle shaft rigidity and smoothness of rotation is the single most important consideration in buying a new or used lathe. Engine lathes are really quite simple. Feed/threading gearbox, half-nut condition, feed clutch condition, and feed screw/feed screw nut backlash are secondary inspections to be made.

In conventional engine lathes that do not have ballscrews will have some backlash even in new machines. Slideway/gib wear can usually be adjusted to eliminate most slide wear. Lathes during the era of cast iron machining can have some really uncommon looseness but most all of those machines were melted down long ago.

The spindle drive motor and drive train would need to be looked at also. Like I said earlier, engine lathes are simple machines!!
 
Listen to Jerry. A whole lot of misunderstanding out on the net. What normally happens when the ways wear, mostly close to the chuck? What effect does it have on a 1"-1 .250" tenon? What effect does it have on the threads of the same length? When chambering, if you are pushing a reamer what difference does a misaligned tailstock matter?
I'm, certainly not pushing worn out machinery, just wanting for folks to think about things before making statements about so called worn out American or other machinery.
 
Are you doing it for a living or for sport? You can get a top gunsmith for less than the equipment if it is for fun. But you can't beat the fun if you don't worry about the cost. In all of the years I have been around the shooting sports you can always get the best to do it cheaper than you can get in to the business. But if you are a little strong headed you can get great results too just break out another thousand. The tooling will surprise you It is a never ending purchase of bushings, rods gauges, dials, .... I looked at many used lathes before I bought one and you will not be sure of what you have until it late in the game. It is a big mistake to buy anything twice. So look hard and carefully before you buy new or used.

Fly tying I had a shop owner tell me to give me $750.00 and he would keep me in flies. I am not that smart I have landed some amazing fish on my flies and at a cost of many times more in material and equipment than he was asking for.

John
 
Evertime a thread like this comes up I offer a bunch of questions:

How "good" is good enough for gunsmithing?
Do you want to build guns or rebuild machine tools?
Do you have any idea what to look for in a used lathe?
Do you have the expertise to rebuild a machine tool?
Are you prepared to gamble on a used lathe with no guarantee?
Are winning rifles being built on Asian lathes?
Can you drive to a Grizzly location to inspect a lathe and transport it home?
Do you know a world class machine tool inspector to look at used equipment with you and assist in needed repairs?

I have DONE all of the above. Lost a few $$ buying used American equipment in my early days. I'm on my fourth lathe currently which is a rebuilt 1984 Jet (Tiawan)1236BD with replaced head stock bearings, scraped ways, converted to DC drive, etc.......It is a wonderful lathe and builds some very accurate rifles and prototype tooling and parts for the motorcycle racing sport...............Your mileage may............
 
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In the last fifty years I have seen a fair amount of poor workmanship and scrap produced by people. If a lathe was to blame I don't remember it!
 
JerrySharrett said:
Excessive play in the spindle shaft, or if it is a bearing type spindle, can and usually will cause axial chatter in chamber reaming. This excessive spindle play and/or weak spindle housing bulkhead design (and cheap quality bearings) usually gives more chambering problems than any other single item in barrel fitting.
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Jerry,
Are you talking radial play or axial play, or both?

Thanks,
Keith
 
mks said:
Jerry,
Are you talking radial play or axial play, or both?

Thanks,
Keith
Click to expand...

Both. Axial play is probably the chief culprit of chamber reamer chatter since most all cutting pressure presented by the reamer is axial. Radial play can cause chatter when turning the tenon since the cut pressure when turning is axial and radial depending on the condition and shape of the cutting tool.
 
What would one expect to pay for a SB Heavy 10? I've been looking high and low for one and miss out on the good deals. I've seen them priced at $800-$5K plus. EBay seems to harbor the expensive ones! Any tips on finding one?
 
DSM said:
What would one expect to pay for a SB Heavy 10? I've been looking high and low for one and miss out on the good deals. I've seen them priced at $800-$5K plus. EBay seems to harbor the expensive ones! Any tips on finding one?
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This is all going to fall into the fact that you generally get what you pay for. When the South Bend Heavy 10 was taken off the market the MSRP was over $17,000. A later attempt to bring the Heavy 10 back by getting it built in Taiwan, that offering was for about $21,000. This will give you an idea of what it costs to produce a 10" tool room quality lathe suitable for industrial use. Meanwhile, in the USA, Monarch Machine Tool still offered their model 10EE for about $92,000! Factory rebuilt 10EE's sell in the $65,000-$70,000 range today.

To answer your question, expect to pay up to $7,500 for a better condition machine or about $3,500-$5,500 for an average offering. The price on good quality, used, machine tools in the US has dropped in the last 25 or so years, not because they wear out easily but because not much real manufacturing is being done in the good ole USA. Why? We have grown used to going to Wally World,Harbor Freight, etc. and buying ChiCOM made junk for pennies on the dollar.
 
Sometimes older Colchester bantams and similar with longer beds can be had for 1-3K depending on condition/tooling, but are 3ph. A bit of adjusting and figuring out where its worn and so on is in order, but you'd have to do the same figuring out on most brand new china/taiwan lathes in the 4-7K category anyhow, but yes plenty of guys use them with success. Southbends tend to be a bit more $ because of how desired they are by so many hobbyist and a bit of that cult following.
Main thing is to have a machine you don't spend more time working on than working with.
 
You might want to look on the Practical Machinist Forums. There is wealth of knowledge there. There are forums for many makes of machines and the South Bend Forum is a very active one. There are true experts who contribute there as well as information on sources of aqusition and any other item you could ever bring up. There are compelling reasons South Bend Lathes are so popuar and have survived the scrap yards. They may not be the best choice for everyone as Clausings and others are arguably better machines BUT, they are usually bigger , heavier, more difficult to buy used items for and to install for the usual average hobby user, IMHO.

I have a South Bend 10E, bench-top 36" Toolroom Lathe I bought in 1969. It has been re-built once when I was working in a Re-build shop. It has been used a bit since but is still tight and reasonably accurate. It was built in 1943 and is one year and a few months older than me. It came with almost all the tooling accessories one could get back then for $600. I have dragged it with me with the 7 or 8 moves I have made since 69. I still see, on Ebay, 10E's at very good prices, with tooling, wich is very important to someone who doesn't plan to make a living with the machine. There seem to be a lot of great machines in California at good prices. If ne has the wearwithall to haul it home, it seems to me Californis is a mecha for good used machines.
 
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