LaPIERRE ON MEET THE PRESS

[Wilbur]

Bill - I had that same thought a long, long time ago. I think it was during the very first attack on the 2nd ammendment. I went into a "gun" store and all they had on the shelves were para-military firearms. They didn't have that box of 20 guage shells I wanted so I went to another across town - same thing but they had what I was looking for. I threw the shells in the back seat and said to my now ex-wife..."Man, I can see now what all the flap is about. Why would a citizen of the United States of America need or even be allowed to buy some of that stuff?" I realize now that my 20 guage is not gonna offer much comfort against a youthful national guard believing it's their sworn duty to follow orders.

God forbid it should come to that.

Again, the 2nd amendment is not about our right to own hunting and target rifles.

 

[alinwa]

Another thing we'd do well to remember is that the 2nd Amendment is a part of our US Constitution known as "The Bill Of Rights."

The Bill Of Rights.

Look it up, our Founding Fathers knew EXACTLY how people are. Nothing has changed about people since Adam and Eve yet every generation thinks they're "different."

Until they grow up

Or don't,

some never do...

Generally because they don't have to.

I don't think most people realize that EVERY "restriction" including those against machine guns and silencers, hand grenades and howitzers has been an unconstitutional infringement of our RIGHT to keep and bear arms. The only reason they've been enacted is because the average working man is uneducated in this area and the only reason they've stood as law is because those who DO educate themselves are generally too busy making a living to fight it. This is what was so momentous about the Heller case, and why it's particularly important that we keep this momentum.

Most important is that we THINK......... THINK about those kids! THINK about why they were massacred en masse. And don't give me any crap about being cold or hardhearted, I've got more kids of my own than anyone here. On purpose. And (oddly enough ) I love them and care about them. I've already sent more of my own blood through school than most have, I still have 4 in public school and more in college. Yeahh I felt the hit, but those kids in NJ were murdered because of a LACK of guns and training, NOT "because Americans are gun crazy." And speaking of that, why do so many of us as shooters "dislike" those black guns? I wouldn't be caught dead hunting with one!

But I'm wrong!

I have to adjust my view.

Jim Zumbo lost his job over just that sentiment.

I do know where my sentiments originate. I don't want to be associated with "the sort of guy who'd pack a machine gun in the woods."

And I'm WRONG!

First of all, every animal in those woods is bought and paid for by my Pittman-Robertson dollar just as every fish in the crick is financed by Dingell. Secondly, it's none of my business why someone wants to own/shoot any sort of firearm/weapon and thirdly IT AIN'T ABOUT HUNTING!!!

rant off

al

 

[jcwit]

Yeahh I felt the hit, but those kids in NJ were murdered because of a LACK of guns and training, NOT "because Americans are gun crazy." And speaking of that, why do so many of us as shooters "dislike" those black guns? I wouldn't be caught dead hunting with one!

What kids were killed in New Jersey?

 

[alinwa]

I'm sorry, brain fart. I was referring to Newtown CT.

((((I'ma' guess here...... "Sandy Hook"- "Hurricane Sandy"-"Chris Christie"-"Freudian Slip"...... Sandy Hook in NJ is a big beach, when I first heard "Sandy Hook" my forebrain said "Joisey" and I ain't been able to shake it.....I got no idea it just dribbled out my fingers))))

 

[Vibe]

Why is it that .Gov thinks it's perfectly fine to try and govern US with all stick and no carrot - but try that type of parenting and see where it gets you. And then consider exactly WHY it is that mental issues are (or seem to be) increasing? Possibly because it's by design.

 

[Hunter]

I don't think most people realize that EVERY "restriction" including those against machine guns and silencers, hand grenades and howitzers has been an unconstitutional infringement of our RIGHT to keep and bear arms.

To quote a well-known figure, "It "depends on what the meaning of the word ['arms'] is"; I trust you agree that it might be an ambiguous term. Interestingly, most of us on this forum do not get to define that meaning, and I suspect those who have that privilege have heard and considered numerous persuasions from a lot of smart folks, and have put a lot more serious thought and research into that issue than all of us here put together. In fact, that's their full-time job.

Surely, it's not too hard to acknowledge that the words of the Constitution have to be "interpreted" before we "know" what they mean, and sometimes what we think they mean is not what they really mean -- at least not to those who interpret them. Referencing the first bolded part of post #88, I wonder if the 1791 "normal and ordinary" meaning of "arms" included howitzers.

 

[Vibe]

I wonder if the 1791 "normal and ordinary" meaning of "arms" included howitzers.

I'd say it did. And I base that upon the use of cannon (the "Howitzer" of the day) that Ben Franklin, as a citizen, put into play during the Revolutionary War.

 

[Hunter]

I'd say it did. And I base that upon the use of cannon (the "Howitzer" of the day) that Ben Franklin, as a citizen, put into play during the Revolutionary War.

Clever; now let's hear your argument for "machine guns and silencers" -- then, for high-capaciity magazines. Then, would you be so bold as to claim that your interpretations are unambiguous?

 

[Joe Salt]

aka This is not about HUNTING what the founders said its about TYRANNY {OPPRESSIVE POWER} And I feel like there squeezing my N$&"s Now let me ask you this are you on our side or there's?

Joe Salt

 

[vicvanb]

"
Infringement of our rights is acceptable even though the stats show it would make no difference in public safety?

You guys just don't seem to get it. People got sick of Machine Gun Kelly and Baby Face Nelson outgunning the cops with Thompson Submachine Guns and demanded that their ownership be restricted. It was. I submit that it made a difference in public safety. Kelly and Nelson and everybody else had their freedom infringed. Has any court anywhere ruled that restricting submachine guns is unconstitutional? Only the most extreme would argue that restricting submachine guns was not permissable.

This is pretty simple to grasp, really.

 

[vicvanb]

Jim Zumbo lost his job over just that sentiment.

Right and at the time we had more fun than we're having now on this forum debating the wisdom of it. Poor Jim, a stalwart gun guy for decades, got skewered by the extreme element for a late-night, casual comment that didn't deserve the reaction it got. Then, his employers knee jerked and he was fired despite many years of fine service. Thankfully, it all blew over quickly and he made a successful comeback. Much ado about (almost) nothing.

 

[jo191145]

You guys just don't seem to get it. People got sick of Machine Gun Kelly and Baby Face Nelson outgunning the cops with Thompson Submachine Guns and demanded that their ownership be restricted. It was. I submit that it made a difference in public safety. Kelly and Nelson and everybody else had their freedom infringed. Has any court anywhere ruled that restricting submachine guns is unconstitutional? Only the most extreme would argue that restricting submachine guns was not permissable.

This is pretty simple to grasp, really.

My apologies to Wilbur up front. Ban and delete if you must.

I'm of German heritage. Now when I see the letters vicvanb I see a Jewish Nazi sympathizer telling his Jewish neighbors wearing the star of David on their sleeves is no big deal.
"Trust the Nazi's, they only want whats best for you".

When you forget what history has taught you have learned absolutely nothing.

 

[alinwa]

Thank you jo191145. Like you, I live here on purpose. I could live anywhere on earth.

As could you

vicvanb, your use of "extreme" is nauseating. In your view our Founding Fathers were(are) extreme.

In my view they were(are) heroes.

You are a liberal,

I'm not.

As to who's "right," history will (has, to some of us) tell.

al

 

[alinwa]

.........Surely, it's not too hard to acknowledge that the words of the Constitution have to be "interpreted" before we "know" what they mean, and sometimes what we think they mean is not what they really mean -- at least not to those who interpret them.........

Yes, aka, IT IS "too hard to acknowledge" your sentiments. I've spent my life around fundamentalist conservative Christians who feel that The Holy Bible need be "interpreted" too. Life has taught me that when someone has to "interpret" any clearly worded text for me, they're scamming me. I don't care if the text is scientific, medical, religious or political....... Adults communicate clearly. Adults are unambiguous. And most importantly adults MEAN what they say.

America was founded by adults.

I'm a Big Boy now.

I've spent my time in church, in court, in school, in the job market, in business and in life.

I now know what the Bible says,

I now know what the Constitution says. Because I can READ, aka.

No aka, I don't need any help "interpreting" words. I have a dictionary.



al

 

[Hunter]

I now know what the Constitution says. Because I can READ, aka.

No aka, I don't need any help "interpreting" words. I have a dictionary.

Sorry, al, but the issue is not what you think you know or what your dictionary says, it's what do the words mean, and the Constitution does not give you and your dictionary the right to make that call.

 

[jcwit]

Sorry, al, but the issue is not what you think you know or what your dictionary says, it's what do the words mean, and the Constitution does not give you and your dictionary the right to make that call.

Well aka, that is your opinion and nothing more, Thank God!

 

[Hunter]

Well aka, that is your opinion and nothing more, Thank God!

Maybe you'd be interested in knowing that the Supremes share that opinion.

 

[Vibe]

Clever; now let's hear your argument for "machine guns and silencers" -- then, for high-capaciity magazines. Then, would you be so bold as to claim that your interpretations are unambiguous?

No interpretation required, and not much argument required either. The 2nd Amendment was written to protect the right to keep and bear "Arms" - In the supporting documents and discussion, "Arms" were those devices and weapons "in common use" (by the standing militaries and militia) - as such this would clearly include all of the NFA regulated "Firearms". The purpose was for the general population to be at least as well armed as any standing army (that they might have to fight against). Suppressors in particular are confusing to be regulated in the way they currently are - Just look at the European countries that require the use of suppressors to even use a firearm to reduce the incidence of hearing loss.

What some of the people in this thread fail to realize is that the US Constitution was written in the simplest possible language - to avoid the problem of "legalese" and the problems with vague interpretations - it was written for the people to understand, meaning the general public. It was not written in the code words of Contract Law.
And as to why "they got sick of Machine Gun Kelly, etc"....Had the .Gov not tried the whole Prohibition thing - that level of crime/rebellion quite possibly would not have happened either. Their job is to "Govern" not to "Rule" - a distinction they still don't seem to have a grasp upon.

 

[Vibe]

Maybe you'd be interested in knowing that the Supremes share that opinion.

SCOTUS is not infallible -they've gotten several decisions wrong. One only has to looks at the various philosophies espoused during the various eras of the Court to see that. They do pretty well for the most part, but their "mistakes" are very long lived - their not being much of an "appeal" process to a SCOTUS decision.

 

[Joe Salt]

aka let me ask you this, you never answered my other question. When the Second Amendment is gone, what will happen the to the rest! Do you think you'll be able to say what you want then.

Joe Salt