Just Got My New Scale

jackie schmidt

jackie schmidt

New member
I just got one of the Denver Instruments TP-153 scales.

Now I have to figure out just what the heck I am going to do with it.:D

Seriously, aside from needing a small inverter and battery to run it at the Range, it looks like a great unit. Measures accuratly to .01 grn., and repeats dead on.

Has a great wind cover, the biggest negative is probably the size. So, I also bought one of the little Competitive Edge Scales. Used it last week end, it's drawback is it simply is not as accurate, and does not repeat as well, as the larger, (and more expensive), unit.

I weighed, (pun intended), getting a good scale as opposed to using a Chargemaster. Personally, I think the scale has it beat. ...........jackie
 
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You get a system with the scale and you can beat a Chargemaster by 50% in speed. It's a lot more moving but you're a working guy, you won't notice.

I use my thrower to throw close (under) and then trickle with my fingers.... just a little cup of powder and FINGERS, no silly trickler.

You will learn a TON about your powder throwing habits and you'll learn to hate throwing over...... I pick up the pan to remove kernels when I throw over.

Fingers RULE

al
 
Jackie, going from volumetric dumping to something like the TP-153 is kind of extreme. IMO, weighting powder to the 1/100 of a grain in shortrange benchrest is stretching the band a lot.

Keep that scale to satisfy doubts about your powder process, spot weighing a new batch of bullets, etc. Then get a Chargemaster 1500 Combo and use it for 2-3 matches. You will find it scares you to go back to a Culver type process. The Chargemaster 1500 will give you accurate measures to 1/10 grain.

As to portability for the 1500, according to Don legg at RCBS they will take an electrical input from about 8 volts to about 16 VDC. So, go to an auto parts store and get an about 500CCA battery booster that has a cigarette lighter outlet on it. Then go to a Radio Shack type and get a cord with the cigarette lighter fitting on one end and a RCA type plug that matches your RCBS plug on the other. Using this battery booster, and leaving it on 24/7 will last for several days.

The power adapter that comes with RCBS, all 3 of mine state the output as 9VDC, but all 3 measure actual output as 12VDC.

If you are just going to load in your camper and have a dependable source of 110V you don't need the battery pack but at 2 of the big shoots last year we lost 110V for a time. One, surprisingly, was at the IBS nationals at Weikert. Some yo-yo cut a tree down, then it hit a radio tower, then the tower hit the main line that comes up that valley to the Union County Range.
 
Talk to Jerry Hensler. Given the light current draw, he figures that the battery pack he made from Radio Shack parts, and 8 D cells, should last about two Benchrest seasons. He found a plug end that is the same as the stock AC adapter and wired that to the batteries.
 
Jackie ...

From an economic standpoint you could have bought TWO RCBS Charge Master Combo 1500's (dispenser and scale) with 1/10th grain accuracy from Natchez Shooters Supply for the same money you paid for one scale. How are you getting the powder to the scale?
 
Ab

I do it like everybody else, set the case on the scale, zero it, charge the case in the conventional manner, and adjust the charge as needed by either adding a little, or taking a little out. Shooters are doing this all over, seems to be a pretty affective method. pretty fast, too, once you get into a rythm.

I bought a little inverter last night, just 150 watts., I will use a small 12 volt battery, re-charge as needed. No more than this scale draws, it should last at least an entire week end.........jackie
 
Jerry

I know that this is overkill, but what the heck, I didn't want anybody walking up and giving me the old, "are you sure that scale is any good" crap. So, I bought a good one. I just figure that's a couple of hundred dollars my Wife won't give to my grown kids.

Heck, if I could have figured out a way to do this with my little beam balance, I would have used it. That "zero" feature on these electronic scales makes loading at the range very doable...........jackie
 
jackie schmidt said:
I do it like everybody else, set the case on the scale, zero it, charge the case in the conventional manner, and adjust the charge as needed by either adding a little, or taking a little out. Shooters are doing this all over, seems to be a pretty affective method. pretty fast, too, once you get into a rythm.
Click to expand...

Only problem with this method is that if your scale "flutters" from static electricity or dust/wind, etc., you will "zero" the error right into your charge. Given the .01 grain accuracy in optimum conditions, you can easily have .1 or .2 error in the charge in bad conditions which puts you right back to Culver type throwers. The only difference will be that you'll be three times slower and have to baby the scale to and from the range and REALLY baby it while at the range. You have to keep the scale clean, static free, level, and shock proof. ANd if you have less than three relays, you can get behind real easy with scales. There are none of these problems with a Culver.

But if you are at a big match with three or more relays, and you have an indoor loading area, and can have one table set up just for the scale, you can make a scale work great.
 
Grouper

The literature states that this scale has a ground strap that negates any static. It does, it runs from the scales innards, goes through the first metal pan, up the side of the glass enclosre, to the top metal pan cover.

I took it outside of my office, ran an extension cord to it, and it weighs the test weight exactly the same as it did indoors.

I practiced loading 20 cases to simulate loading for a Unlimited Match. 20 minutes is all it takes to size the cases, prime them, weigh each charge, and seat the bullets. I might have to cut down on my "BS" time between relays, (no small feat for me), but sometimes we have to make sacrifices.:D

One advantage this scale has over the little electronic one is that it remembers the "zero" much better. In other words, when you remove the case and put it back on, it reads the same. The little $100 units will not do this on a consistant basis.

Of course, there are errors in everything. But I am trying to get out of that "it's good enough" attitude that many of us have fell for over the years. If we all kept that attitude, we would never improve. ..........jackie
 
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That's good Jackie. Those features would be worth the extra money right there.

Can't tell you how many times I've seen guys loading with a chargemaster at a match and they have it right beside someone else's press on the same rocking table while they are trying to weigh out their powder. Makes me cringe............:eek:

I've used mine inside my truck with no one else in it with me and if there's a good enough wind, it will move the springs in my truck just enough and the scale will show it. If I was to throw a charge weighed in that scenario into a case and then go shoot it, lord only knows where it would go!
 
Some things to be aware of on these lab-type scales. According to the type load cell used, these scales may drift for a period of time. That period of time on some models may be for half hour or so. So turn these scales on a while before using. No big deal, just be aware of this.

Nuter thing, many of these scales do not come with a drop pan. You can just use the powder pan from your balance scale.

Then the drop. Get an MTM powder funnel kit like the Model AF7 http://www.mtmcase-gard.com/products/reloading/reload.html and use the long stem. By using this 4" stem you can put as much or more powder in a case as an 8" drop tube on a volumetric measure by pouring the powder onto the side of the funnel cone and letting it swirl to the center.
 
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Jerry

The zero feature, (tare), on these scales does away with even having to use a funnel. Just zero the case, drop the powder, and add or take away as needed..

Most shooters set their measure to where it throws a few tenths less than the desired weight, then all they have to do is trickle in what ever amount it takes to get the charge right.

I saw one shooter at the Nationals, who was doing quite well, just dump the whole charge out of the case if it didn't weigh right, rather than trickling in powder. He had his measure set to what he wanted. It was just as fast to re-charge the case untill the desired weight appeared. I might try that approach this week end.

As with a lot of things, everybody will develop their own technique and ideas as to what works best. As long as you are sure that each case does have, within a tenth, what you want, that is all that counts.
 
Jackie

For my 30's I pre-weigh my charges when I have the time to do so. It is slow because I weigh 3 charge weights, so we're talking about 200 charges or more. Each charge is put in a glass test tube. I have seen better results on paper, and extreme spreads over the chronograph to be around 3 fps for 5 shots. My scales will weigh to .002 grains, but I have found the average granule to weigh around .012gr. On a more positive note, for the next match, you only have to weigh new charges for the ones used, so typically 100 or so will be all you need. Lately I have been to lazy to weigh many charges after the drive to the match.

Michael
 
Jackie,
I think you made a great choice. A truley good scale will give you a lot of confidence after seeing it perform. One little trick I came across is to get one of those drop pans with a little funnel on it. After using it I learned that when the pan is removed my scale shows the pans weight as a negative #. It is so nice to always see the same number with the pan removed. If there is any drift I see it and just re-zero.
 
Russ Hardy said:
Jackie,
I think you made a great choice. A truley good scale will give you a lot of confidence after seeing it perform. One little trick I came across is to get one of those drop pans with a little funnel on it. After using it I learned that when the pan is removed my scale shows the pans weight as a negative #. It is so nice to always see the same number with the pan removed. If there is any drift I see it and just re-zero.
Click to expand...

I'm with Russ 110% on this one! :)

Here's the pan. w/funnel.

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/t...wder funnel with pan&cm_ite=netcon&hasJS=true

To use it you need a long drop tube, cap with the funnel or the kernels popcorn all over creation.

Maybe there's a better way but I need the ability to add/remove kernels that I don't get dumping right into the case.

al
 
I've been using my Chargemaster to throw loads for my MX-123 for years now.
Set the CM to throw .1gn under and trickle up with a small Lee dipper. If I go over I gently scoop a bit out and start up again. As Al said, you'll learn to want to avoid that:)
While I'm adjusting the load the CM is throwing the next. Pretty darn fast method and I had the CM kicking around anyway.

I can get quite a bit of zero wander at times with my MX-123. I combat this by weighing both the pan and the charge together. 147.08gns (pan) and 29.6gns (charge) = 176.68. That way if I see some deviation in zero after removing the pan and powder I simply hit zero and recheck. No need to dump the powder to rezero just the pan.

I'm patiently awaiting the day I can move my gear up from the basement to more suitable surroundings for sensitive electronics. Hoping the zero wander can be eliminated by such a move.

My particular ChargeMaster is accurate to around .3gns. Usually pretty close but it throws high and low fliers occassionally. Too much variance for me. Its an earlier model and supposedly they've tightened up the specs a bit.
 
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If your Chargemaster is off .3grn, send it back. There is seriously something wrong with it.
That aside, and this side of a Prometheus, the Chargemaster is the best system going right now.

I know, I know, there are tons of lab scales indicating with higher resolution. NOT RELOADING SCALES. They are not reliable to resolutions higher than a Chargemaster -outside of a housing. And throwers themselves are nowhere near any. So you can throw, and trickle by hand, no better than a Chargemaster would do for you(~.05gr).

I only bring it up because all roads lead to it anyway.
You'll see...
 
mikecr said:
If your Chargemaster is off .3grn, send it back. There is seriously something wrong with it.
That aside, and this side of a Prometheus, the Chargemaster is the best system going right now.

I know, I know, there are tons of lab scales indicating with higher resolution. NOT RELOADING SCALES. They are not reliable to resolutions higher than a Chargemaster -outside of a housing. And throwers themselves are nowhere near any. So you can throw, and trickle by hand, no better than a Chargemaster would do for you(~.05gr).

I only bring it up because all roads lead to it anyway.
You'll see...
Click to expand...
...

you cliam +/- .05 and the guy above you says 3 tenths....some how I doubt your cliam.
i too have an mx-123......works great.
now since most of us would be happy with powder that was consistantly less than .1...............jackie made a great move. his scale will allow him to ACCEPT plus or minus .05 if he choses....or less. me i can go down to about plus or minus .03.
without this accurate of a scale you are at plus or minus .1...and more likely .2 .
Jackie.....put it on something solid. since you have plenty of metal around...say a 12x12 x??? . since mine is at home it is on a 12x18 x3 granite block.

watch for drifts, put up a wind screen.

good move jackie.

mike in co
 
mike in co said:
you cliam +/- .05 and the guy above you says 3 tenths....some how I doubt your cliam.
i too have an mx-123......works great.
now since most of us would be happy with powder that was consistantly less than .1...............jackie made a great move.
Click to expand...

Research, my friend
http://www.6mmbr.com/powderdispensers01.html
You will note the testers observation with testing that the "ChargeMaster seems to throw within 1/2 of one-tenth grain high or low"
I've done a bunch of comparison testing using an Acculab123, and my CM registers single powder granules quite accurately. This conclusion was with H322(.03gr each).

I was an early adopter of CM and made efforts to help people improve performance of theirs. In numbers we were able to get RCBS to revise the programming.

Maybe I should qualify my view on the CM route.
For one, I was referring to the CM combo(dispensing system), as a best system overall for charging cases.
If you manage to do better, with actual reloading, I would be amazed.
Secondly, a simple scale does not a charging system make, regardless of cost. You can throw, weigh, trickle with seperate components no better than CM because it's accuracy is just right(not too wild, yet single granule), and it is just as fast for this accuracy as any other methods combined.

Then, it leaves the rest behind IMO. It is a single package at a very reasonable cost. I can change powder in it without disturbance, punch in the desired charges on the keypad, and hit 'dispense' way, way faster than I could change powder in my Harrels thrower, & seperate trickler. Then I would have to calibrate the thrower(which I'm glad I never have to do again).
And I don't have to hold my breath, or put off a scratch to get readings with the CM.
When you think about it, even the Prometheus, this beautiful enclosed charging system, would be a pain to use for multiple cartridges -compared to CM.
And talk about easy,, I seat bullets in each charged case WHILE dispensing the next. No way I could throw, weigh, trickle, charge, and seat, so fast as a simple dispense/seat and charge.

I know why simple throws are desirable. And I'm telling you that you can have better accuracy in charges, using a CM, with very little extra effort and time.

I wouldn't be surprised if Jackie comes around to this.
All that accuracy & the fiddling around with it all, at a cost of practicality, will get old quick.
 
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