IR50/50 Indoor Nationals

Jim said in part: so we know it was done by the rules."

That is the point of the discussion Jim. The rules were followed to the letter on Saturday and appear to not have been followed in a different situation on Sunday. bob
 
Ok...

So the whining about following the rules Saturday(not by Tony, incidentally), was just a set up to whine about not following the rules Sunday. Right?

Think I got it.

J
 
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I've no idea what's being discussed about the Sporter target being shot in the wrong class. Someone care to elaborate on this?
 
I was not there on Sunday so cannot offer clarification. It is my opinion that selective enforcement of rules is not good for any sport.
 
I thought that the Sunday sporter event was to start at 8:30 instead of the 8:00 am start. I had brought my equipment to the range at 7:30 and then went to the B&B across the road where I was staying and had breakfast with my wife. When I returned at 9:30 to shoot my relay I was told my relay (3) was in progress. It was my bad. I said, "Well I'll just shoot the 10.5 and 13.5 events then." It was suggested by one of the organizers that I could shoot my sporter on an empty bench on the first 10.5 relay. I double-checked that it would be ok and set up on an empty bench and shot my sporter target. I knew very well that if I shot a potentially winning target that it would likely be protested and I figured that if it was protested that I would just withdraw because I didn't want to cause any controversy. I shot a 247-16X which was a 10th place score and nobody protested or even mentioned anything about it to me or (to my knowledge) the match director. I'm sure this would not have been suggested to me had this been an outdoor event where one gets obviously different conditions. If Bill H wants to remove my sporter, 3 gun and 6 gun scores from the results he has my full approval to do so. I just think the event organizers took pity on my mistake when they offered to let me shoot and gave me the opportunity to have a little more fun. I'm sure if I had been in contention for a 3 or 6 gun award, it would have been protested and I would have been rightfully taken down. If someone had a problem with my situation they should have spoke up. I would have supported them.

I have to wonder why this issue is being brought up by someone who wasn't there or directly impacted? I'm pretty sure I know the reason and it hasn't a thing to do with Tony Harper or me. Any opportunity to take a shot at IR50/50 and Bill H - isn't that right there Slick?
 
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Was this within the rules?

IndianaJames said:
Pretty sure, without looking at the rules, that all targets of a class have to be shot on a relay for that class.



Jim
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Parlimentary Procedure should be done the same for everyone ,if you deduct 5 points for an infraction on Saturday,how can you blatelenly bend the rules on Sunday and call it a mulligan ! Just a rule interpretation I guess by the organizers, right Buskey! The problem is too many rules and selective enforcement can`t be good.
 
Well Slick, the beautiful thing about IR50/50 is that a competitor can protest another competitor's target, equipment, etc. Any shooter who had a problem with the way my situation was handled could have protested my target and, as I said before, I would have supported them. Correct me if I'm wrong, but in ARA a shooter can only protest their own target. So an obvious mistake on a target in the shooter's favor will stand unless the shooter has the integrity to protest their own target and have point(s) removed. Right?
 
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#1 Dislike

Bill B said:
Well Slick, the beautiful thing about IR50/50 is that a competitor can protest another competitor's target, equipment, etc. Any shooter who had a problem with the way my situation was handled could have protested my target and, as I said before, I would have supported them. Correct me if I'm wrong, but in ARA a shooter can only protest their own target. So an obvious mistake on a target in the shooter's favor will stand unless the shooter has the integrity to protest their own target and have point(s) removed. Right?
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Down here that shortens one`s life expectancy,I guess that`s why we are scared to shoot it, somebody would protest anothers target and we would have a hard time telling his bride he ain`t never coming home again! What a shame!
 
Actually it was implemented in 2011 that any competitor can protest any other competitors "obvious" error in scoring. This excludes anything that isn't obvious. If a clear 50 is scored 100 it can be protested by any competitor. That means you cannot ask for a plug on another target but can ask that an "obvious" error be corrected. It is also up to the Match Director to decide whether to address it or not.

Carp

p.s. see ARA Rule Number 16.9.4
 
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Hey Willy

Where I agree that the rules should be inforced AS WRITTEN and consistently I have to say that I am glad tha Bill H and the MD decided to to handle it with a little sportsmanship.Hell we arent winning $$$ here it is a sport shot for fun and when it is some discretion should be used.If it were another MD and I wont name names his card would have been called dead and he wouldnt have had the opportunity to have a 6 gun score tabulated.I am all for giving people who didnt make a intentional mistake the benifit of a doubt.Now if it were a money match then no way the rule should have been inforced.It really isnt a big deal either way and I wont make it one as others in the past have.If you really try, you can take all the fun out of this sport, give them a break Willy.
Mike Cameron
 
There's no argument available

When you concede a rule, there's gonna be a problem. It might appear in the short term or it may take a while but there will be a problem. Slick Willy is simply pointing out that a concession was made for one and not the other.
 
Thank you Mike. I agree, but you can bet Slick ain't going to give IR50 or Bill a break. He will ride this pony for weeks to come. Makes one wonder what his REAL agenda really is doesen't it?
 
No problem Mike!

MIKECAMERON said:
Where I agree that the rules should be inforced AS WRITTEN and consistently I have to say that I am glad tha Bill H and the MD decided to to handle it with a little sportsmanship.Hell we arent winning $$$ here it is a sport shot for fun and when it is some discretion should be used.If it were another MD and I wont name names his card would have been called dead and he wouldnt have had the opportunity to have a 6 gun score tabulated.I am all for giving people who didnt make a intentional mistake the benifit of a doubt.Now if it were a money match then no way the rule should have been inforced.It really isnt a big deal either way and I wont make it one as others in the past have.If you really try, you can take all the fun out of this sport, give them a break Willy.
Mike Cameron
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Just be consistent ,don`t envoke a nuclear reaction on Saturday, then awk shucks on Sunday let one slide cause of a stupid mistake of Tardiness, big boys selective prosecution gets a lot of egg on faces; TAKE IT LIKE A MAN ATTITUDE, you`ve been there and got shamed, 50/50 has too many rules that most take the fun out of it, it wasn`t fun on your miscue,(My buddy Chan did the same miscue @ Kettlefoot at the ARA match after the PSL that same year of your Miscue and everybody got a laugh! Same deal different results.We did call him Little Mike for a day or two! )that was the shot heard around the world and could have been handled a lot better, but if they want all those kindergarden rules, It Is the problem! As BC said ,those rules are put in for some one elses advantage! Never been a better example than @ Luray this past weekend! Remove about 50% of them and make it better for everyone! That`s all Folks!!
 
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Don`t know them all !

When there is only one relay ,clean on the bench, 2) that stupid one about hanging your target verticle only, it`s a round target ain`t it, 3) flags blowing over and you can`t touch or pick it up, 4) TD`s Catch 22 rule that was envoked, 5) The gotcha weigh the rifle after one has gone (McFall) 6) cut the time down to 20 minutes/card (4 days for 9 targets @ luray),7) The Cameron rule, are just a few Wilbur,I `m sure there`s more!
 
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Willy

Have you actually read the rules or just have an opinion about them? Which rule was broken on Sunday?

Please enlighten us as to how Saturday's clear rules infraction would have been handled at ARA, both from the offenders' position and the person whose target he shot. While you're at it let's imagine that he had dropped 6 points on those 5 bulls he shot on the wrong target.
 
MaxxPower said:
Willy

Which rule was broken on Sunday?

Please enlighten us as to how Saturday's clear rules infraction would have been handled at ARA, both from the offenders' position and the person whose target he shot. While you're at it let's imagine that he had dropped 6 points on those 5 bulls he shot on the wrong target.
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If you don`t know what rule was broken on Sunday ,you are in a deep hole! Sweet Dreams Maxx,yall can rationalize all you want to , not me . Happy Trails ,see yall @ Kettlefoot PSL & ARA
 
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I have been involved in this kind of situation in the past

I, for many years, shot two 6 Power rifles each match day in IBS Score Competition. IBS Score has three classes that are all shot together. When there are more than two relays, it is easy to loose focus and shoot on the wrong relay, which I did. The outcome was Disqualification based on the Empty Bench Rule, which IR 50/50 has as well.

IR 50/50 has every right to do whatever it wants. I like the idea of accommodating folks who have traveled a long way and spent a lot of money to participate. Allowing someone to shoot, who hasn't done anything agregious to another shooter, seems to me, a fair thing to do. That said, rules are rules and rules are useless unless they are used.
 
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Slick Willy said:
When there is only one relay ,clean on the bench, 2) that stupid one about hanging your target verticle only, it`s a round target ain`t it, 3) flags blowing over and you can`t touch or pick it up, 4) TD`s Catch 22 rule that was envoked, 5) The gotcha weigh the rifle after one has gone (McFall) 6) cut the time down to 20 minutes/card (4 days for 9 targets @ luray),7) The Cameron rule, are just a few Wilbur,I `m sure there`s more!
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It's been a while and I don't know what you're talking about on the first one - cleaning on the bench.

Now that the target has sighters everywhere I agree that the "vertical" rule is outdated. I do know that if the ARA required vertical targets it wouldn't be an issue.

You can adjust flags between targets and have been allowed to do that for a long time now.

I don't have an argument either way on crossfires. It's simply an unfortunate circumstance.

Weighing rifles is simply for show unless you weigh them coming off the line. Show seems to suffice..Yep, it's a crummy rule and needs work.

The time allowed per target is purely opinion and lastly, refresh me on what the Cameron rule is...
 
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