In your opinion whats killing the group game

[jackie schmidt]

Relax? Why? So we can all sit around and talk about the old days, and whine about the sport dying, and how we all have more important things to do? Give me a break. It is attitudes like this that will kill the sport in short order. It becomes a self fulfilling prophecy to go on the internet and tell the whole world BR is dying. I see it every day on this board. We are all fighting an uphill battle here on many levels, no need to pile on evertime someone says the sport is dying. I happen to be singling you out, partly because I know you, which isn’t fair, so you are getting the brunt of this, but your comments are similar to so many inside and outside BR.

We are having a great year. I am enjoying all that we have accomplished as a group out here. Personally I can always shoot better.

Let’s see some action, not just words. I have put forth numerous examples of what has worked around here. I have invited anyone to contact me to discuss increasing their club attendance, although nobody has. We will have 10 people from our club at Holton this year. That is a 60 hr round trip drive for us. Imagine if every BR Club had this level of interest?

You asked what has changed? What has changed is people have numerous choices as to how they spend their free time. BR not only has to compete with all other shooting disciplines that didn’t exist 50 years ago, but it also has to compete with the incredibly short attention span people have these days. This is why you have to promote more than the old days, and promote in ways that didn’t exist 50 years ago. This is inescapable. Modern life is all about competition, in everything including how people spend their free time.

Of course this is a hot button topic! I want to be shooting BR well in to retirement but there seems to be a real defeatist attitude out in BR land that this sport is dead, and some people who seem determined to make sure it dies. I will never understand this.

Weird thing is the interest from some countries seems strong. Go figure. There is something to this I haven’t quite figured out.

Everyone is entitled to their opinions, but it would be nice to look at options to attract newcomers that have worked at other clubs, instead of rewriting the course of fire for the national tournament as the opening salvo.

Probably more than anyone cares to read, but none the less that is what I see happening out there with our beloved sport of BR.

Rick

Rick, you make some very good points. It does take a certain amount of enthusiasm among the participants to make it all work. The problem arises when that enthusiasm is manifested in an effort to put on a first class Match, and nobody shows up.

Benchrest is competing against a miriad of shooting disciplines that simply did not exist in years past. The truth is, unless you are participating, it's boring. It lacks the glamor and military aspect of many of the shooting sports we are competing with for competitors.

At my local club, which is limited to 300 members, you can count the BR shooters on two hands. But, every weekend there will be quite a few members with some type of civilian version of a military weapon, AR's, SK's, AK's, etc. They bang away and are content.

These shooters will look at my Benchrest Rifles and the extreme accuracy we achieve and be amazed, but then take a look at my entire truck load of equipment and say, (to themselves), "you gotta be kidding".

No easy answers. We at Tomball for years have tried to promote the Sport, and give Benchrest Shooters a place to compete.

But then only a handful show up.

 

[rpollock]

Call or email anytime

Jackie, I am sympathetic. I agree with the multi discipline challenge and choices competitors have as stated above. Our club was in much the same position as Tomball. We only have about 400 members. Participation was down to 5-6 shooters at our shoots. Seeing that we were in danger of BR disappearing, we ran BR schools, held open houses, held a reloading clinic, opened a forum dedicated to BR, just recently got on facebook (note it is way more active than the internet forums when it comes to BR), improved the range, stopped wearing out our volunteers and went to paid helpers. These are just some of the steps we took.

Not knowing exactly what promotions have been tried at Tomball, or the local club politics it is hard to know what the best course of action is, but the offer still stands to talk it over with you or anyone who is interested in attracting, and keeping new competitors. Call or email anytime. Contacts below.

BTW I shot at Tomball around 1997-1998. I was in oil and gas then, and in town on business, and took the opportunity to fly with the rifle and UPS all the gear to Houston. Worked out well, and was my first exposure to the big kids in BR. A real eye opener!

Rick Pollock
403-554-6772
rickpollock@shaw.ca

Rick, you make some very good points. It does take a certain amount of enthusiasm among the participants to make it all work. The problem arises when that enthusiasm is manifested in an effort to put on a first class Match, and nobody shows up.

Benchrest is competing against a miriad of shooting disciplines that simply did not exist in years past. The truth is, unless you are participating, it's boring. It lacks the glamor and military aspect of many of the shooting sports we are competing with for competitors.

At my local club, which is limited to 300 members, you can count the BR shooters on two hands. But, every weekend there will be quite a few members with some type of civilian version of a military weapon, AR's, SK's, AK's, etc. They bang away and are content.

These shooters will look at my Benchrest Rifles and the extreme accuracy we achieve and be amazed, but then take a look at my entire truck load of equipment and say, (to themselves), "you gotta be kidding".

No easy answers. We at Tomball for years have tried to promote the Sport, and give Benchrest Shooters a place to compete.

But then only a handful show up.

 

[GeneT]

What's killing every game is a lack of volunteerism. I've not shot BR (so you may ignore my input, but do so at your peril!) but I've shot in quite a few disciplines and been match director / setup flunky / assistant bottle washer, what have you. Every discipline exists because a totally committed, VOLUNTEER keeps things going. Having paid help is great, but it's not a given that it can be found. At one time, and in one discipline, we had help that would work for an additional $2 match fee. That help evaporated and the $2/shooter was of little consolation to me as I was tearing things down, alone. I got burnt out in a big hurry.

The first thing that needs to happen, is that the need for help needs to be communicated regularly. When I started competitive shooting I didn't really give much thought to how things happened, they just did. When I finally realized how understaffed we were for setup and teardown, I threw in, but we burnt a great match director in the interim.

A thriving discipline needs volunteers. Period.

The very least you can do is thank your match director(s) - they've given a helluva lot to make it all happen.

The next best thing you can do, is volunteer. Help in any way you can. There is no such thing as "don't know enough" - a strong back, skills in Excell, willingness to stay after the shoot, are all valuable assets.

The ultimate is to give up a year to be a Match Director or some other position. You will learn a lot and will have contributed to you sport in a very tangible way. If everyone did this, I'm convinced no shooting discipline would ever dissolve.

It's not for the glory, it's not for the girls, it's not for the money - but every sport must have volunteers. Volunteers are what keep a discipiline viable at any given club.

GsT

 

[John VM]

Well I took up Rick on his offer and called him and you know what, he is not such a bad guy. He is quite passionate about this sport and has some great ideas. This does not mean other ciubs have failed because of bad ideas. I would recommend if anybody is looking for more ideas than you may want to talk to him. Social media is not always the best place for discussing details. It is a good place for getting the word out.
If someone was really interested in coming to a match they will search the web for info. Can they find your club and when the matches are? Do other shooters get to hear of Benchrest as a local sport and not in far and exotic places. Is Benchrest a shooting sports secret to some one who is not "in".
At this point I would also say I would not and do not recommend changing the nationals. The only reason I have brought up changing shooting matches is that I have heard many times in our region that a rail gun is not a great investment as you only get to shoot it at 2 matches through out the year if you can make it to both nationals. I was always intrigued by them and never bought one for that reason. I also have had several people ask about them when talking to others about this sport. I cant say it will work but it could be worth a try.
One or 2 day matches will depend on the area. Where large amounts of travel are needed 1 day matches may not be popular but in others it could very well be the answer. Trying it out is the only way of knowing.
Reading GeneT's post I must admit I could have helped more during some of the matches. My apologies. I did always try to thank the director and the help for there work running the match. Will try and do better when I can make it back.
John

 

[Guwa]

This is perhaps the biggest problem.

agree

 

[Kris Whitman]

Group Shooting Woes

I read this thread and I can say I agree with most every opinion here. Yes group shooting is on the decline with no real solution in sight. I live in New Braunfels, Texas and shoot at Dietz rifle range. I have been shooting group for a long time and have observed a few things along the way. I help run the Bluebonnet Benchrest shoot we host each year in New Braunfels and I can agree the attendance has drastically declined. Back in the day, that is a term us old guys use, we would run three relays to accommodate all the shooters. The last two matches we could have run just one if we did not have people sharing equipment and benches. One of those we only had 20 shooters. Several reasons for this that I see.

1. Lets face it a lot of us Benchrest shooters are getting older and no longer have the drive or energy to make a two day match.
2. Not a lot of new group shooters. The younger guys tend to gravitate to long range, F-class, PRS type of matches. It is the new thing and it appeals to them. Those guns cost as much or more than a LV or HV rifle and you can shoot factory ammo if you desire. Its not a money issue that is causing our decline. You can even purchase an off the shelf rifle and compete. No loading or neck turning required. They can concentrate on shooting instead of messing around with loading and preparing. Young people are busy and have limited time...they want to shoot not volunteer or load.
3. Winning is hard in this sport. You show up to a match and get to shoot against Tony, Gene, Sir Charles, you get the point. You are probably not going to do well. That is hard on an ego...and a lot of these younger guys have that in abundance.
4. Low attendance makes hosting registered matches difficult. It takes a lot to host a registered match. Volunteers are needed to set up target frames, install the backer system, fix PA systems, order the trophies, arrange food the lunches for two days, run the computer, score the targets, arrange for target crews, write up the report for NBRSA, pay the bills, etc...etc...etc.... I can speak from experience how many actually help. Mike Bryant mentioned the challenges of running a match. The last Bluebonnet the Boyscouts did not show this year so no one to put stickers on the targets, run targets, cook the lunches. I convinced two club members to help out. One is almost 70 and the other is out past 70 years old. I volunteered my daughter to help run targets, I set targets, set up the moving backers, scored targets, and set up the computer. Two of our wives arranged for lunches. Did I mention I did not shoot. Without volunteers a club simply cannot afford to host such an event. Its hard to put on a registered match!
5. Group shooting I've been told by younger shooters is boring. No clays shattering, no steel dings, no silhouette targets falling, etc....

You get the point. Everyone above has valid points and I agree with most. The fact is there is competition out there from other disciplines like never before. We are not the "IN" thing any longer

I enjoy shooting so I do a little of everything including group matches. I do like busting clays or shatterblast discs at 300 or 400 yards or ringing steel at 1000. Hitting something is satisfying and I do not blame the younger guys for preferring it....I do too. We will just have to admit to ourselves that group shooting is for the guy that loves precision, has the time to devote to it, and understands he is not going to always win. He has to be self motivated and driven to chase perfection.

This was not intended to be gloom and doom but you see the challenge. More shooting options exist today and that my friends is "The Rest of the Story"!

Kris Whitman