Help cut and thread a new bbl plz

J

jGEE

Guest
This will be a fun project for me and maybe some of you experienced builders won't mind a few helpful hints. Probably will be some dumb questions along the way, but maybe a few "newbies" reading this will learn some pointers also.

I made a post Monday looking for a used bbl. I hope mr joe don't mind but i gotta mention he really done me right on a spare Lilja he had laid back. I got the bbl yesterday with plans of waiting on a Kimber i have coming from the CMP in about 6 weeks. This is my first build with a bolt gun.

I have a Kimber 82G that shoots really nice, i been 'tunin up my skills with. Well i couldn't wait for ol "Rusty" to come in 6 weeks from now!! Today i chucked up the Kimber action and bbl and took a relief cut on the stock bbl at the shoulder so it would come out. Oh yea and i'm not the most skilled with a lathe but i'm learning.

I will say up front this is my first go at this and i'm pretty sure it won't be perfect. I think i can get the new Lilja on and hope it shoots better than stock bbl does.

I got a few question on what the marks are on the bbl.

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I know this is the muzzle end (saw cut). Can someone explain the marks and where the cut should be?

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Ok on the chamber end, what are the dots between point 6 and 7 telling me??

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I had kinda dinged up the action face when i took my relied cut, so i clean up the face. Now i didn't do anything fance to line the action in the chuck. I did indicate the best i knew how and it didn't have any runout so i took about .010 off the face to clean up my ding marks. I know it's probably not absolutely perfect square but for my first attempt i think it will do. I plan on having the Kimber apart a lot, redo gettin more square as i learn. So far i am really enjoying this thing called "crack", oh i mean "rimfire" -worse than crack, lol.
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I don't want to offend anyone but here is my skunk wrks i'm putting together. I schrounged up every piece of crap i wasn't using and put it on e-bay. I got the lathe delivered for $2100 - could bought a used bench gun i guess but i think i can make the adventure last longer going this way. Maybe some of you won't mind going on a little trip with me, lol!
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Here is the Kimber action and bolt, i fugure a good start for me to learn with.
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Well i'm broke again but i got "supplies", a few bricks of wolf and sk and 9 boxes of eley tenex, lol. I also bought a used Shillen from mr fred j that will be here tomorrow. Look out your door, thats me grinnin all the way from texas!! I appreciate any help with this, thanks! joe
 
A man after my own heart. Why would a person buy something when they can lose the farm and DIY it. Seriously, I do that all the time. My friends and family all ridicule me, but when they get in a bind over something broken, they call me. Do it man. I need a small shop building........................

curtis
 
Butch Lambert said:
I would ask Joe Freidrich what the marks mean.
Butch
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I got a good idea where to cut, it seems like the marks give a little leeway. I've just read so much i have gone blind. I was hoping Mr. Lambert a guy with your experience could tell me cut -away or maybe exactly where to cut. I didn't know Mr Joe was a 'Smith!

...and i wanna have some fun, plz don't poo -poo it for me with your first post, lol.. thanks joe :D
 
Well, In my opinion he is one of the better rimfire guys. He may not be a smith, but I bet he knows what the marks mean.
No reason if you are careful that you would mess up. I bet it will shoot well.
Butch
 
jGEE,
On my rimfire barrels, I slug them and make marks similar to those on yours, marking any tight spots, and where the choke begins, and where it's parrallel, and where it ends. From the markings your barrel seems to be a Lilja tight bore (.215/.220) 4 groove--straight .850 diameter. Cutting it off at the right spot and crowning it there makes a difference.

If you will slug that barrel, you'll get a good understanding of what those marks mean.
 
I have several guns with barrels that are about 4" shorter than I thought they were going to be when I started. Always start out with the longest blank you can, then you have several second chances to get it right. There is no other way to learn than to go for it. Good luck and have fun.
 
P.S. Don't cut any excess length off the barrel until after you got it threaded.
 
Adendidum ...

I would like to point out a mistake i made cutting the stock bbl at the shoulder for easy removable.

I tried getting the bbl out without cutting the shoulder. It was stuck in there very hard -wouldn't budge.

I cut the bbl right at the action shoulder, even rubbing up against the shoulder with the cutting tool, it was tight so i didn't want any resistance - i was worried it would not come out. This is the first one i have done so i didn't know.

I measure the action thickness and i knew i would have to cut .250 deep the get rid of the bbl shoulder. Just as i was approaching the .250 deoth the cutting tool jumped and broke. At first i thought maybe it just grabbed, - probably wrong cutting speed or something i done wrong.
A piece of the cutt off tool was stuck in the grove i had been cutting. took some plyers to get it out.

Regound my tool and was going to clean up the cut and finish -then i notice my tool was to thick to go into the groove, what ws up with that??? Finally i realized what had happened.

The cutting tool grabbed the action and tightened it on the barrel more (-because the shoulder was now removed) and pinched the tool!!

If i ever cut another bbl i will leave about .010 on the shoulder side to keep the cutting tool away from the action. I think with a relief cut the .010 won't keep the bbl from coming loose.
 
Butch Lambert said:
jGEE,
Don't tell that! Remember we never make mistakes!
Yeah, we all learn things the hard way some times.
Butch
Click to expand...

Mr. Butch you made me smile when i red that, lol!
What i didn't tell was when the action spun on and grabbed the tool, the tool broke and the lathe stopped!! It was humming but not turning!!

My entire life flashed before me in that instant i was swatting for the emergency shutdown. I just new my new lathe was gone and my Kimber -i didn't want to take apart, was runied, lol.

It's all good, life has given me one more chance! joe:D
 
jGEE,

Your experience is known as a "trainwreck" in the trade, a common but exceedingly painful experience with great learning (and humbling) value. If you didn't break any lathe gears or permanently damage the work (beyond a few cosmetic dings) count yourself lucky. Personally, I hate parting tools and have more trouble with their operation than most other lathe tools. They are sneaky - just when you get them running right, they grab, or break through into an internal bore and jam, or pull the works up and over into the tool (tool point above center, duh..). Yup, its always fun and exciting during a train wreck.

Get a good barrel vise and wrench and you won't have to cut too many barrels at the breech face to get them loose. If you need to notch the barrel to relieve the thread pressure just cut a bit further away from the action until you reach a sufficient depth. then remove metal towards the action face in light passes until you get close to the face. A thin line of barrel metal (.005 or so) doesn't exert any real force at that point and the barrel can be removed without damaging the action. Good luck.

Scott
 
thanks Scott for the comments, you got the TrainWreck part right, lol

OK.... Train wreck #2, The Shillen i got from mr Fred j came in the mail today. I'm still unsure where to cut the Lilja, i think everyone is tooo busy fightin in several other threads to help right now, lol!

Anyway i cut off the part i couldn't use on the Shillen and proceeded to "copy" my Kimber dimensions on the the Shillen, everything was going perfect

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set my threading tool like i been reading, probably squirrely to you pro's, lol

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Everything was going super, then "TRAINWRECK"... threading about half done and i think i went just a touch to far and caught the shoulder, the halfnut would not disengage, chewed up my beautiful work before i could hit the emergency shutdown!

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I'm going to allow just a little more relief between the shoulder and where the threads end this time, actually i was just a few thou less than the Kimber, now i see why you need plenty of relief! Also i'm going to grind some relief on the end of the threading tool. I'm going to take off the top of the "v" on the cutting side. I don't ever see me cutting any threads this deep anyway!

ok, i ate a little supper- i'm going back to rejoin the adventure... so far it's tools "2" joe "0", lol.
 
jGEE..
I'm enjoying your adventure keep posting as I'm also starting my first build. I just spent the last 4 hrs making a .7010 bushing to pilot the PTG action reamer all went well until I tried boring the ID to .498 on my last pass the ID became .503:mad: all that work and at the very end I got lazy! won't do that again!!. One quick word of advice, clip those finger nails!!!:D:D LOL
 
mr huntico you must have a set of bad mics like i do, lol.

AND AND AND...... IT"S A SAVE!! Mr. Butch i'm pretty sure you said the other day 5 threads is enough to hold ~well i think i saved my work, lol.

If it don't work i got 24 more inches to chamber and thread! I'm going to put everything back together and fire a few rounds to see if she will extract. I may have to adjust just a bit!

whats head space anyway?? joe:D

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Itsy Bitsy Chevy Spider

Built a "spider" today. I see why the preferred method is chambering thru the head stock, simple. What surprised me the most was how easy working with the spider would change the run out at the chuck. Even with the bbl tight in the 3 jaw chuck it didn't take much pressure from the spider to change the run out -i was surprised.

With just the chuck i got .0025 run out. just a little pressure at the spider the runout was not enough to read with the indicator i was using. Maybe .0003, I have another indicator for checking inside the chamber but i didn't set it up for a reading. for today i was happy, happy, happy.

For some reason i was thinking readings down to .0001 were going to be impossible for me but now i think i can see the light at the end of the tunnel! Yea i know i should have built the spider before i cut and chambered the Shillen but i was about to explode to give threading and chambering a try!!

Next time around in a few weeks i will be a little more precise. The Shillen with my first try is shooting better than the stock Kimber bbl did. I scared myself yesterday, knocked out dead center 4 bulls in a row on a PSL target @ 50yds. Hey it's a start, now maybe 5 in a row before next year, lol!

I didn't have any round stock the size i needed for the spider but i spied a couple old chevy 454 balencer i had -well the center of one is now my new spider, you can see the keyway for the crankshaft, lol. it's working for now - i can spiffy it up later!! i'll tell you it's border line if i got the patience to be a machinist, lol. I'm having a blast with my new lathe!

I was trying to figure how to mark 4 equal spaces, then walla, just use a Birchwood stick-on target - divided perfect!! joe :):)

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JGEE,
Don't put your barrel directly in the chuck jaws. Wrap the barel with heavy copper wire or maybe soft aluminum material. The way you are holding it will bend the barrel when adjusting your cathead on the left hand side.
Butch
 
Joe,
Nice work, looks good.
I would put some jam nuts on the adjusting screws to enure that they don't come loose at an inopportune time.

James
 
Joe, I have the Calfee slugging articles ready to mail you, I need your address. The email I sent you must be lost in cyberspace. Thanks, Douglas
 
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