Gritter's chambering video

Thanks Jackie, believe it or not-----

I now fully understand what you have posted.

Its been about 25 years since I did any lathe work and my skills are pretty stale but I still have a good practical understanding of 3-D geometry. I'm very confident that I know and understand how this should proceed and that's a relief.

I'll chamber a barrel when my machine work gets back up to par.

Thank you so much Jackie.

A. Weldy
 
The 'why' of it...

Jackie,

With respect.

The 'why' is what makes me continue to ask you the questions.

Here's where I believe I am. I actually believe I understand the 'why' you are talking about.

When you said,

"No matter what you are truing, you can always arrive at two places that are dead true with each other, and turning true with the axis if the lathe spindle, regardless whether the piece is straight or crooked."

When you said,"..with the axis if the lathe.." you actually meant "is" and not "if". Correct?

Now, let me agree that there are many ways to do this. Each having seemingly more common sense than others.

The muzzle for you is then related to the chamber position. The muzzle run-out position would be best indexed to 12 o'clock high or for some 6 o'clock low. Never at 9 or 3 o'clock. - that makes sense, yes?

Can you restate your method in shorter simpler terms? I am honestly interested in it.

-John M. Paton
 
Good Grief

I need to get myself another proof reader.
The word is "OF", not if, or is. The sentence should read,....."and turning true with the axis of the lathe spindle".
I have edited and corrected that.
As for muzzle indexing, It is my opinion that this is another solution to a problem that does not exist...........jackie
 
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But if you set up a barrel as Gordy does, you will need to index the finished barrel either up or down, otherwise the gun will be shooting at some strange angle away from the centerline of the action and the scope mounts would need a bunch of windage adjustment to compensate. As Gordy says, indexing the barrel "up" is good for long range shooting. I suggest he means the gun will actually shoot high in this situation?

Ideally, you would do all this indicating on an unturned barrel blank, and when all the chamber work and muzzle work was done, then the barrel could be contoured between centers and get both chamber and muzzle back into the same plane...........

I'm intrigued by all of this............Id like to know how much "misalignment" Gordy is finding as he is dialing in these barrels with his method.......And how much is "too much".....?
 
A tip for anybody

Shoot well
Peter
 
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Roy

You got it.
I have seen shooters who use the indicating method described in Gory's Video have barrels print as much as "off the paper" from one barrel to the next.
I feel safe in saying that every barrel I do will print within 4 inches of the one before when I screw it on. Or at least, that is the way it has been........jackie
 
bore X reamer

I am very happy, that people can come to understand that we all don't like milk. I would like to think of a barrel as a line that never ends. If you do so, one could say that only one end of the barrel would be under control at a time. If this is true don't worry about what the other end is doing,as long as your setup is not lost I.E. chamber looks down bore X crown mirrors its own exit. If spider end wobbles much then your set up is to tight at chuck end and one could say that you are flexing the barrel. The way to stop this problem for what it is worth would be to have a gimble setup that is narrow enough to let barrel dial in with out flex on far end, I.E. jewell scope rings would be a good place to look to understand. But these gimbles are much wider than a barrel can take under the load a chuck. Dialing in at two locations at the same time would keep one from having wobble on one axis that is why you use a range rod,but if barrel is flexed this will not work. Always ask what does the earth do while spinning on it's axis, it wobbles Write me back tell me that you would like to know what planet I live on,but don't talk about my spelling by now we all know that I am just a farmer that has a hard time finding the hog lot. Results count make sure to do your barrel work your way!!
 
Lucky Shooter said:
Both of you gentlemen advocate having the bore at the throat and chamber run true with the bore at the muzzle.

I understand why you want this but I don't understand how you can depend on achieving this----without a barrel with minimum bore curvature or without the possibility of trimming the barrel in search of throat and muzzle locations that will line up.

I'd appreciate any clarification you can provide on how to achieve this.

A. Weldy
Click to expand...
For the chambering;

I first determine where I want the muzzle based on barrel taper and the weight I need. eg LV, HV Max HV, etc. I use Dan Lilja's program to calculate weight if I am not duplicating a previous barrel.

I cut the barrel off at the muzzle end to about 1/8" of finished length. In setting this up I indicate the barrel OD sticking out of the tail end of the headstock. I am using a South Bend Heavy 10 so I can work a barrel through the headstock down to about 18" long. On the muzzle end, I indicate the OD at the cut point.

Some barrels will have concentricity errors from OD to ID as much as 1/16". Not a problem. I'm not working in the ID just yet, just cutting the muzzle end to near finish length.

I then turn the barrel around and indicate the OD on the chamber end and a gage pin in the muzzle end. Then cut to approx length with a parting tool just as I did for the muzzle.

At this point with the barrel spinning about 200 rpm I look down the bore to see how much curve is in it. Over the years I have had to send 2 barrels back that I thought runout was excessive. Both looked like a girls 2-girl jump rope. I don't reorder from them again.

Now, with a snug fitting gage pin in the muzzle end I position a dial indicator on that gage pin. I use an Interapid 0.0001" dial indicator with a probe long enough to reach the chamber neck area. I then dial both ends in. The muzzle end I dial in to the nearest 0.001" using the spider. I dial the chamber neck in to 0.0000" or as near that as I can get.

I rough the tenon to about 0.01" over finish size and to length. I pre drill the chamber body to about 1/64 under chamber shoulder/body finish size and almost to the finish shoulder (leave about 1/32" or so for the reamer shoulder to finish.

I then reindicate the muzzle end and the chamber neck. Didn't move so I go on. On the chamber neck I indicate the lands. That's where the neck pilot rides.

I bore the drilled hole to about 0.005" under the shoulder finish diameter then step bore a couple more 0.005" steps in the larger part of the chamber body taper. I don't try to taper bore the chamber body. Too many places to screw up oncluding cutting a surface the reamer will grab on. In most chambers the reamer pilot is already in the barrel bore anyway.

I rough the barrel cone if it is a cone bolt or the counterbore if it is something like a Rem 700.

Finish the tenon OD and shoulder. Make sure the shoulder is very square and no corner radius with the tenon OD.

Finish the chamber gaging off the tenon shoulder. I use a floating pusher that is shown in several posts on this forum.

Finish the barrel cone and thread.

Turn barrel around and indicate the muzzle ID with an Interapid indicator. On the muzzle end I indicate the grooves because I sometimes put a 0.005" x 45 bevel. I have also indicated the tenon OD in this same setup.

When I finish a barrel it will be on paper to within +/- 2" at 100 yards from the barrel I just took off if that barrel was done by me.

Hope I didn't miss anything, Don't try to nitpick this or I will ignore you. If you have a reasonable question I'll try to answer.
 
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ApplesXsquash

Sense were picking fruit of the beaten path. How would some people feel about a cnc reamer holder for a lath application. One that has thrust,needle and ball bearings. One that preload is adjustable has 3/32 radial X 2 deg angle properties . One can get this from Kennametal with correct taper for tailstock .
 
No nitpiking here Jerry----

Just wanted to thank you for answering my post.

You and Jackie have cleared the fog for me and I appreciate it.

A. Weldy
 
Don Nielson said:
How many nits can a nitpicker pick?

Sorry Jerry couldn't resist. Pumpkin
Click to expand...
Don, I was thinking as I was typing that, I shouldn't have said it that way.

Then after I posted it, I reread it and said I should remove that sentence.

But, then I thought, "what the 'ell"!!

BTW, how many nits can a nitpicker pick?

You too Al!!!
 
I am glad others have their opinions...

I was fortunate enought to get a copy of Gordy's DVD. I watched it intently. I have the greatest respect for Gordy. His work speaks for itself. Having chambered rifles off and on for 35 plus years I have learned to have an open mind. I have said it many times that I learn something new every day. I took notes of the differences in how Gordy and I chamber. I have watched this post very intently. I think that I chamber more like Mickey and Jackie, and Mike Bryant not that my skills are anywhere near their levels. I was glad that I was not the only one who had questions about some of Gordys methods. I have several customers who have several barrels made and chambered at the same time. One particular customer has 25 barrels chambered all at one time. I am going to ask him is I can experiment with the two different methods of chambering with him conducting a blind test. My customer shoots extremely well and is a great records keeper. I will ask him to report to me the results of his barrel testing. This time next year I will have tested both indicating both ends to dead center or just aligning the chamber end and aligning the muzzle up.

Nat Lambeth
 
Nat,

You would have to chamber a bunch of barrels both ways to get a reliable statistic on what method works better than the other. Something like 200 barrels should do (of each chambering method!)

With just two barrels there are infinite variables that will negate any results.

I still contend, using Gordy's method on the muzzle will reap more benefits, without any negatives. This is where the bullet meets "free flight" and how it is released by the crown will effect accuracy. Just look at what an improvement simply recrowning a barrel makes..........Having the crown 100% perpendicular to the bore (at least for the length of the bullet, just has to improve accuracy. I'm going to take a couple of my real good shooting barrels and recrown them with this method just for kicks and giggles and see how they shoot.............I too keep pretty good records on my target barrels, and only changing one variable on a know performing barrel should give reasonably good information.

But the whole chamber end of the barrel being out of align with the receiver face just seems more work than the dividends it will pay. If a tight fitting range rod will enter the chamber end of the bore to a distance of lets say, 4" without binding because of excessive "bore twist", I would say you are good to go with Jackie's method. If the barrel has a bad bend at this critical area, I'd return the barrel...............
 
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Does anyone know if Gordy is selling these DVDs? I called Grizzly and they informed me they do not ship to Canada... :confused:

Always looking for excellent resource material.

Regards,

Joe

Please pm me...
 
canada #2

I called and they said they cannot ship to canada as they have a deal with another manufacturer to stay out of canada.

then another person said our minimum order for the DVD to ship to canada is $200

maybe they would like to respond. we are not a 3rd world country and should be able to get the DVD around the same price as usa folks.

(I guess a call to one or more of the vendors we deal with cound result in getting the dvd to canada but we would prefer to deal direct)

Jefferson



mmmmmmmm maybe Joe can be the official importer and make a lot of money mmmmmmmm
 
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