Friend Jackie Schmidt

K

Kathy

Guest
Friend Jackie:

My friend, I never post on one of your threads.......but, I'm going to make an exception...

I understand you shot a .160" 200 yard target......my friend, that is simply awesome! I "were" a short range centerfire benchrester some time back....I fully understand your awesome performance.......

But, my friend, me and you are different.......

I want the whole pie.....

When you thread the muzzle of a rifle barrel, you distort the bore at the muzzle...

When you add a muzzle device, (tuner) you improve accuracy...

So here is where you're at....with your awesome .160" 200 yard group:

You gave up 15 percent when you threaded the muzzle....you gained back 25 percent when you used a muzzle device, (tuner)....You had a net gain of 10 percent....

Jackie, no matter what you post in response, if anything, you are going to think about what I just wrote.......

The dirfference between me and you is this: I ain't going to give up the 15 percent by threading my muzzle........

I want the whole 25 percent that a muzzle device,(tuner) offers........if the muzzle isn't distorted...by threading..

Centerfire folks will shortly not need to thread their muzzles......it's silly and time wasting.....and hurts accuracy...

Jackie, the awesome .160 you shot, could have been, probably, a .135" to a .150" target, if you hadn't distorted your muzzle by threading...

Before you go wild my friend, I want you to understand something; shortly you will not be threading your muzzles...then you, and every other centerfire benchreater, can have "the whole pie".

Jackie, I will say again, no matter what you post in response here, if anything, what I've said is going to make you, and every other centerfire benchrester, think.....

See my friend, I love accuracy, period......my ego has never gotten in the way of me accepting something new, or different, even if it wasn't my idea, if it would make my guns better.......I don't think it will with you either....

Congratulations on a simply awesome target.

Your friend, Bill Calfee
 
Kathy said:
Friend Jackie:

shortly you will not be threading your muzzles...then you, and every other centerfire benchreater, can have "the whole pie".

Your friend, Bill Calfee
Click to expand...

I will bet my "economic stimulus rebate check" that Jackie would switch to a "non-threaded barrel tuner" if he could find a better/simpler attachment method, that provided better; stability, adjustability, and proven increased accuracy..............without requiring a prohibitive amount of additional weight or installation/removal complexity to new barrel installations.

So far, nothing obvious has presented itself, so I imagine Jackie will continue to stick with what works best for him at the present time.............Don
 
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I'll bet if Jackie had read the windflags correctly all of his groups would have been 25% better..:D
The tuner is a little extra security but won't beat a condition...I wish we had more in depth discussion and developement of the art analizing the atmospheric conditions and their effects on optics and ammunition...I recently watched some benchrest shooting on YouTube, and observing the flags and timing of the shooters shots was confusing to say the least...The guy shooting would shoot during a left to right condition, then sit and watch when the same condition returned...only to fire several times during a right to left condition...
I can tell you that if someone made a comprehensive video of shooting groups under multiple flag conditions and demonstrated hold off and mirage shooting it would sell as well as Mike Ratigans book...all of the things that time and experience teaches would be worth $100 a copy..
If any novice reloader had to set down by trial and error to figure out how to properly size, shoulder bump, adjust seating depth, and load testing...this game would be without new shooters...But thanks to all that freely give advice and techniques secrets, a novice can make good ammo on a very short learning curve..."Where am I going with this" :confused:..I sound like John Force..
 
Hot glue

Seems like some type of hot glue that you can put on and take off with a heat gun would work. They use it on 2 piece hockey sticks all the time and you know how much shock and abuse they take. You would just need to find the right temp glue. Frank
 
Good Shooting Jackie

Jackie
Way to go aand we both know and understand that there are those can machine and understand what they have done and what effects it will have and then be able to prove it with data and actual results--keep up the good work.

Machining barrels at the muzzle does NOT necessarily distort the bore and those that emphatically speak that it does do not know what they do not know.

Jim Borden
 
Just got me a fresh bottle.........of Jack Daniels "Single Barrel"..........man is it awsome..........Lid is threaded on!
 
Ernie,

You're not back out on the porch ar ya man ?? Great time to be out on that porch !!

Bryce
 
Bill

Mr. Calfee, you have wasted whatever friends you might have had here on the centerfire board with your wild statements, veiled hints, and lack of detail. You never respond to direct requests for concrete information but merely state that things will be changing.
I am not a registered benchrest shooter nor did I stay at Holiday Inn last night. However, I did grow up on a livestock ranch and did step in a lot of BS along the way so I do recognize it pretty well.

If you have any real information to share about attaching a tuner, then please feel free to do so. Most of the folks on here are quite willing to share real concrete factual information and that is appreciated by the rest of us.

Joe Duke
 
A lot of negativity going on. Perhaps it would be better if we just said nothing at all -- not replying is a message too.
 
Joe Duke

Joe you could put two round rings attached by a single bar like a chinese fingers game on your barrel as one method.

You could also just make the tuner a slip fit Like Henry Childs has been doing for some time now and tap it on.

Another method would be glue or J-B Weld inside of a slip fit with extra clearance for the epoxy.

Even a single set screw will hold a nice fitting tuner body in place on a large magnum cartridge so a 6ppc shouldn't be an issue.

None of those methods requires threading the muzzle or pinching it.
Lynn
 
what does a set screw do to the interior dimensions? I think it would be worse than threading it. has anyone checked a threaded barrel with an air gauge?
 
Dusty Stevens

A set screw doesn't show up when slugging a barrel.Threading does.I don't know what if any affect it has on accuracy just that you can feel it.
Lynn
 
Ernie said:
Just got me a fresh bottle.........of Jack Daniels "Single Barrel"..........man is it awsome..........Lid is threaded on!
Click to expand...

That probably explains why so many Jack Daniels experts drink directly from the bottle. They cant hit the shot glass because of the threaded neck. :D
 
Friend Don

Friend Don:

I quote from you: "I will bet my "economic stimulus rebate check" that Jackie would switch to a "non-threaded barrel tuner" if he could find a better/simpler attachment method, that provided better; stability, adjustability, and proven increased accuracy..............without requiring a prohibitive amount of additional weight or installation/removal complexity to new barrel installations.

So far, nothing obvious has presented itself, so I imagine Jackie will continue to stick with what works best for him at the present time.............Don "

---------------
My friend, you are correct. Jackie, and the rest of the centerfire folks, will use whatever works best.......

There is a gentleman, it's his business, not mine, so I can't speak freely, who has developed what I believe is the solution to attaching centerfire muzzle devices, (tuners)....WITHOUT THREADING THE MUZZLE.

I spoke with him this day....he has set up some tests, to see if his idea does what both he, and I, think it will......

Don, I don't mean no disrespect to any of the fine folks on this forum, but, threading the muzzle of a fine rifle barrel distorts the bore....it matters not how the bore was rifled.....it matters not what alloy steel is used....

I've used every type of rifling, and barrel steel, that there is.....there are no exceptions....threading that muzzle distorts the bore, period...

I'm just a dumb old feller....I ain't got no learning....when I graduated high school, the little thing they handed me was empty....everyone else got a piece of paper saying they graduated......man, I had a hell of a time getting a job....but, even as dumb as I am, I have learned that we simply can not cut on the outside of a finished rifle barrel, without distorting the bore.......there are no exceptions, I'm sorry.

Don, ole, dumb, Bill Calfee wants the whole pie......I ain't never giving something up, to get a little....when I could get the whole thing...never!

Your friend, Bill Calfee
 
There are a number of Loktite products that would probably work great for a no-machining, non-clamping method of attaching a tuner body to a barrel.
 
Well, I can only imagine that until Jackie is soundly and consistently beat by a new centerfire non-threaded tuner design, or see's and experiments with a new design that is better than his existing setup.............I wouldnt expect to see a change anytime soon...........Don
 
Lynn said:
Don what is interesting to myself is that we are no longer debating wether a tuner really works.

We are now debating the best way to install one and wether or not it should be fixed or adjustable weight.

If you look back several years ago on this very forum everybody told Bill Calfee then that they could do this or that with powder and seating depth changes and he didn't know anything at all about centerfire rifles.

I guess the tuner question has now been answered and we all know who was right even if those posters will never admit it.

I do have to admit I have only slugged 5 or 6 barrels before they were threaded at the muzzle and that my gunsmith at the time wasn't a benchrest competitor.Most of the slugging I did was to determine the torque required on heavygun barrel blocks.
Maybe Bill Calfee and his rimfire barrel slugging is right or maybe Jim Borden and his 1,000 muzzlebrakes is right.I guess we'll know for sure in about 3 years time if history repeats itself.
Lynn
Click to expand...

Lynn:

I really don't understand what you are talking about. Of course variable tuners work. Browning proved that in the 1990's. (Hell, they even give charts that predict how a particular load may shoot at a particular setting.) Bloop tubes have been around for at least a decade before that.

What hasn't been proven are the claims such as: (1) a barrel with a tuner can achieve better accuracy than that same barrel can achieve by load development alone; (2) that a barrel with a tuner is more forgiving for a given load range than that same barrel without a tuner; or, (3) threading a barrel makes a damn bit of difference to the accuracy equation. As of yet, I don't know the answers to these questions, and perhaps a tuner can do all these things, but saying its so and proving its so are two different animals.

My three year prediction for tuners in the 100 -200 yd BR circuit is about the same as moly coated bullets. A few will do it, most will not and aggs will continue to shrink. Why will aggs shrink? Because the folks that are serious about winning will continue to throw more time and money at the problem. More barrels, more bullets, perhaps Lou's 8208, higher power more reliable scopes, etc.
 
Friend Lynn

Friend Lynn:

If threading the muzzle distorts the bore and hurts accuracy, how come one can install a muzzle brake and not hurt accuracy, or, even sometimes increase accuracy?

My friend, I just "gots" to know the "why's" about stuff.....when I installed my first muzzle brake, I took the gun to the range, before installing the brake, tested it by shooting groups, saved the test target then went to the shop and threaded the muzzle and fit the brake.

I then returned to the range and re-tested, without the brake installed. The gun shot noticeably worse......I then installed the brake and the gun shot as good, or maybe slightly better, than it had originally.....

See Lynn, I felt threading the muzzle surly has some affect on accuracy...the only way I could know for sure was to take the time to test, as I just described above...

I have only fit a hand full of muzzle brakes....not my line of work...but, I've taken the time to run the above test every time I fit one....usually with the same results...

The last brake I fit was on a 300 RUM....for a buddy I used to work with...he came to the shop, we went to the range, set up a target and I sat down at the bench to shoot 3, 5-shot groups.....I only fired one round....I let Mike, my buddy, shoot the rest....that was the worst kicking gun I think I ever fired.... no wonder he wanted a muzzle brake...

We went to the shop, machined the barrel for the brake, then ruturned and re-tested...first without the brake installed....Mike did the shooting...after his first group he looked at me.....shook his head....the gun wouldn't shoot in a bucket.....

I screwed on the brake.....Mike shot again....the gun went back to shooting about like it had before the brake was installed....to Mike's relief...oh, I shot the thing with the brake installed....was like shooting a .243...

Lynn.....a muzzle brake is just a non-adjustable muzzle device, (tuner).....a tuner is so valuable in increasing accuracy, that the benefit outweighs the damage caused by threading the muzzle.....this is the dirty little secret about muzzle brakes....

I want the whole pie Lynn.......I ain't about to give up half of the possible gain from a muzzle device, (tuner) by threading my muzzles.....especially when there is an alternative......

If the world don't end, there will be an alternative shortly...

Your friend, Bill Calfee
 
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