Cleaning Rod - Straightness

P

Phil3

Guest
I have a Tipton carbon fiber cleaning rod, and noticed that straight out of the box, it is not straight. If you hold the handle in a vise, and turn the rod, the jag end scribes a 1/2" circle. I am very new to shooting in all respects, and do not know if that is normal, OK, or...? I used it today on a new barrel, and am now worried I may have harmed it. I am to shoot again on Sunday, so hopefully someone can give me some guidance asap (use rod or not). The rod is 36" long and looks to be slightly bowed. There are long marks on the rod where it looks like it contacted something moving back and forth (rifling I guess).

Thank you.

- Phil
 
Cleaning rod

Phil: I'd also be concerned about a cleaning rod that is not straight. I have a total of 6, all Dewey and Bore Tech, just sighted down the lengths, after reading your post ( you raised my curiosity), and they are all straight. I don't know anything about a carbon fiber, so cannot comment on them. If it were me, I'd consider returning it with the seller paying the shipping/postage. All my cleaning rods are stainless, coated, and the Bore Tech's are my favorite. After many years of hard use, the handles continue to spin-up like an airplane propeller at take-off rpm. The coating remains undamaged.
 
Is the handle at a slight angle to the rod, or is the rod itself not straight? Some rods have the handle attached at the end of the shaft, and others have the shaft running through the handle.
 
Phil
I own 3 Tipton 30 cal cleaning rods, all are very straight, still the whole idea of carbon fibre is that it is not hard enough to wear the metal if it does rub against it. You should perhaps contact Tipton and see if your rod is within specifications.

Dick

Here is an excerpt from their product description.

Carbon fiber rods are the best of both: the carbon fiber can't scratch your bore like stainless steel, and they won't embed like coated rods. Plus, Carbon Fiber rods can be bent to an extreme degree and return to their original straightness.
 
One more thing
I am a little surprised at the claim that carbon fiber can't wear a stainless barrel.

A number of years ago, there used to be an active black powder group that shot at the Fresno range. For a while, some of the shooters changed to fiberglass loading rods, being attracted to their durability, as compared with wood, that would sometimes break. This went along until some of the shooters discovered that their barrels had become belled at the muzzle, evidently due to the abrasiveness of the fiberglass rods.

I know the difference between fiberglass and carbon fiber, but are you really sure that the carbon fiber rods will not wear barrel steel, or did someone, who sells them, just assume that was the case without testing?
 
Boyd Allen said:
Is the handle at a slight angle to the rod, or is the rod itself not straight? Some rods have the handle attached at the end of the shaft, and others have the shaft running through the handle.
Click to expand...

I checked this carefully myself. I laid a 38" long straightedge (.003" straight over entire length) on a counter top and laid the rod next to it, with the handle hanging off the side unsupported. Keeping the first 6" or so of the rod pressed against the straight edge at various positions and then watching the jag end, it is apparent the rod is curved, beginning about halfway down. The jag end shows maybe a .25" gap, but once it revolves around to the other side, that would be another .25" off the centerline, adding up to .5". I also think the rod is not straight in the handle, but this is hard to tell.

The rod has very light longitudal scrape marks on it, but no doubt the rod bowed as I had to apply heavy pressure to get the patches through. I am not doing that again. The patches I think were too big for a .223 Remington (Tipton 1-1/8" - 22 - 26 caliber). I made my own out of Cozy Flannel from Jo-Ann Fabrics at 1" square and think these will work better, even if thicker and denser.

Should I return this rod. I like the idea of carbon fiber, but not impressed with the quality control.

- Phil
 
Boyd Allen said:
One more thing
I am a little surprised at the claim that carbon fiber can't wear a stainless barrel.

A number of years ago, there used to be an active black powder group that shot at the Fresno range. For a while, some of the shooters changed to fiberglass loading rods, being attracted to their durability, as compared with wood, that would sometimes break. This went along until some of the shooters discovered that their barrels had become belled at the muzzle, evidently due to the abrasiveness of the fiberglass rods.

I know the difference between fiberglass and carbon fiber, but are you really sure that the carbon fiber rods will not wear barrel steel, or did someone, who sells them, just assume that was the case without testing?
Click to expand...

I can't say, but some will say that water can wear rocks. On the other hand, some will way that happens because the water carries in it particles harder than rock, which is what is doing the real wearing. Maybe it is that even if the rod was made out of wood, it would wear the steel, if the wood had on its surface, particles that are damaging to steel. Also, stainles steel is not that hard, it scratches just looking at it.

- Phil
 
Phil

Yep, Watched a documetary on TV where a quarry used a water jet saw to cut huge chunks of granite. Wether its the water or the minerals in it is above my pay grade.

Heard the same about rods. its the particles that get imbedded in the rod that cause the most damage.

I shoot a lot of .20''s. Wore out my first Dewey 20 cal rd cuz Dewey sent me a .17 jag and 20 cal rod. To green at the time to know the difference. Tried a Tipton .17 rod next. Did'nt last a month before it exploded just below the handle with a pretty tight patch. I figure I got lucky as I was not impaled.
Lesson learned. Never work a carbon fiber hard.

Bought my second Dewey with .20 jag and its still going strong and if my patches are a little too tight it forgives me.
 
Water jet uses abrasives! I would not use a carbon fiber rod in a BB gun much less a rifle. Graphite and carbon fiber are abrasive! Carbon fiber eats up cutting tools. I use only heat treated and polished Ivy rods by Denny Phillips. If you can keep all the crap from embedding in the coated rods, they would be OK.
Butch
 
Straight Rods

We use bore guides to keep the rod from contacting the bore, so logic would dictate that a straight rod would be a desireable trait.

I am not real sure what Dewey uses to coat their rods, but it obviously works. Keep in mind, what really allows a rod to damage a bore is when it can become impregnated with grit and other debri. If a rod becomes embedded with grit, it becomes a lapping tool, not a cleaning rod.

The single most important aspect in using a cleaning rod, (assuming you are using a quality bore guide), is to STOP that rod the instant it clears the muzzle, not allowing it to rub as the rod moves without the support of the brush or patch.............jackie
 
I remember when the tipton rods first came out. Thought...wow...might be the best thing since sliced bread. At the supershoot, there were several hundred of them for sale at vendors. I couldn't find two straight ones to buy. Never thought of or looked again. Did hear of several breaking shortly after that.

Hovis
 
I don't get the whole 'embedding' thing on coated rods. We aren't pushing the rod through the bore when it's full of carbon. We are pushing the rod through the bore behind a patch. Most of the junk should be pushed out the bore with the patch. Any crap left behind would be down in the grooves not on top of the lands where the rod actually touches.

Now on the other hand we are blasting bullets down the dirty bore. I bet they get embedded pretty badly and a grit embedded bullet at 3000 fps would do far more damage to the bore than a coated rod moving slowly yet it's that terrible coated rod that gets talked about.

If you want to talk about the damage a metal jag can do to a sharp edged crown then you are getting somewhere. I use nylon jags for my centerfires.
 
I e-mailed Tipton. They said to send it back to them for a replacement. I am just not sure a replacement will be any better...a guy at the range had one identical to mine, and it too was bent, just not quite as bad.

- Phil
 
My experience with the Tipton rods started when a shooting buddy was using one across the pavillion and I heard a screeching sound as he was running it in and out.what the hell ! I had to check this out. I looked at the rod and the bearings seemed ok( moving freely), The carbon fiber seemed straight enough and ok,(as I have cut and shot a lot of carbon arrow shafts) and I agree with Butch that carbon fiber picks up alot of stuff( plastic,foam etc, being shot into targets and 3-D animals{ works pretty good on the flesh and blood stuff though! }) I never could figure out the screeching thing but after looking at the way the brass ferrule(the threaded end that receives the brushes and jags) was crimped over the carbon rod and was destined to be on a collision course with the crown of the barrel,I decided that the guys at Tipton didn't have a clue about what a good cleaning rod was supposed to do and I have just ignored their products since then. Now that was about 5 years ago and maybe they changed their stuff ? Dewey rods and a TK Nolan guide are what I use and have no plans on trying anything else.
Joel
 
Tipton Carbon Fiber Cleaning Rod Experience

I bought two Tipton carbon fiber cleaning rods when they first came out to use for cleaning my barrels between relay's at matches. I was looking for a stiffer rod to use with a bronze brush. If they were not straight I didn't notice . What I did notice is the tendency for the ferrule the brush screws onto to pull loose from the carbon fiber leaving a brush lodged in the barrel. When this happens Midway will gladly replace it but the one they replace it with will do the same thing in time when enough bore solvents break down the glue. One barrel was never the same after I finally got the brush out of the bore. I ended up giving all my Tipton rods away to a new shooter that had not a single rod and I'm not sure I did him any favor. I now use all Dewey rods again with Lucas bore guides.

Rodney
 
Nader

Geez now that you mention it mine used to screech too.

I really think crb has a good point. If barrels were that tender they'd be shot out in a few rds. Of course I'm a neanderthal. Run out of JB? No problem, theres a sand pile just outside:D
 
crb,
You gave your opinion about what happens when you push a patch through, what happens when you push a brush through? How do you get the rod out without bringing it back through. Have you ever wiped off your coated rod? Is yours all clean and shiney or does it leave a mess on your rag?
Butch
 
Since I douse the brush with solvent there is bound to be some that gets on the rod. Sure it stains the shop towel but how abrasive is it ? What size are the particles? Are they harder than the admittedly soft SS bbl material ? Are they microscopic bits of brass rubbed off the tips of the wire used to make the brush? And it's not like we are in there putting a lot of pressure on the rod forcing it to rub on the lands with a lot of pressure.

What would having a CF or SS rod change in this regard ?

Google embeddability [ check the spelling first :D ]. Plain bearings like used in a car engine have embeddability. I don't know if a resilent coating has it.
 
I contacted Tipton about the bent rod and they send it back to them for a replacement. Overall, quality is disappointing. Like others, with a tight patch, it screeches. It appears it is from the handle, and bearings, not the patch squeaking going down the barrel. The rod, not only being curved, is also not inserted straight into the handle. I'll get another, but it seems like people do like the Dewey quite a bit, and may get one of those. I'll take a replacement Tipton, but pretty bad when one has to spend own money on various products to find one that is actually built to a decent quality level.

- Phil
 
Well, they are gonna wear out anyway!

I think, with a few exceptions, it is sort of a moot point, whatever point anyone makes. Considering the heat that is put into the barrels when we fire them, once a barrel gets it's throat burned, usually, the end is in sight for the barrel anyway. There are exceptions but I believe the fire is way more harmful that the cleaning rod touching the surface now and again.

I know when I clean my barrels and observe how the process goes sinc I have owned a bore scope, it is way more difficult to get the foot in front of the chamber clean than the rest of the barrel and if the carbon isn't kept off the lands in that area it will lay down on them and is a b word to get off. There is no way I will ever believe that patches alone will keep that carbon from forming, over time but I haven't tried to do it.

Perhaps that carbon coating extends barrel life but I doubt it adds a lot to accuracy.
 
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