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DaRealViper
Guest
Haven't found a load for the .308 consistant enough to shoot cast bullet benchrest for group or score. Anyone have a good cast load in a 1x12 twist barrel? or link to a site listing a good I mean good cast load?
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Hawk
Guest
Lyman third edition Cast Bullet Handbook 1980.
Article by Frank Marshall Jr, Page 92, deals mainly with 30.06,
"Speaking Frankly", An Oldie But a Goody, gives a lot of good info
on cast .30 Cal, a lot of which could be applicable to .308.
"... with this load,the powder is not the thing,it's the velocity.
It has to be enough to stabilize, but not enough to lead.
For low disturbance from recoil, minimal heat buildup over a long run of shots,
the loads must be fairly light, the alloy only medium hard, while it will still
seal the bore over the whole 28",while being strong enough to handle the 10" twist. All are essential."
He was using a 28" barrel with a 10" twist Springfield, shooting "one holer" groups at 100 Yds.
The article is a good read in itself.
Hope this helps,
Don.H.
Article by Frank Marshall Jr, Page 92, deals mainly with 30.06,
"Speaking Frankly", An Oldie But a Goody, gives a lot of good info
on cast .30 Cal, a lot of which could be applicable to .308.
"... with this load,the powder is not the thing,it's the velocity.
It has to be enough to stabilize, but not enough to lead.
For low disturbance from recoil, minimal heat buildup over a long run of shots,
the loads must be fairly light, the alloy only medium hard, while it will still
seal the bore over the whole 28",while being strong enough to handle the 10" twist. All are essential."
He was using a 28" barrel with a 10" twist Springfield, shooting "one holer" groups at 100 Yds.
The article is a good read in itself.
Hope this helps,
Don.H.
Never shot cast bullets but..
I'm gonna take a guess that the principle is the same as jacketed bullet "loads". There is a ballpark for powders and bullets but the good load is rifle specific. Sure, my load could be your load but not likely. The idea that a given load would shoot well in every rifle is good for a couple of pages in "Shooting Times" but that's about it.
Cast bullet shooting seems to involve more voodoo than jacketed bullet shooting - maybe not.
http://www.castbulletassoc.org
I'm gonna take a guess that the principle is the same as jacketed bullet "loads". There is a ballpark for powders and bullets but the good load is rifle specific. Sure, my load could be your load but not likely. The idea that a given load would shoot well in every rifle is good for a couple of pages in "Shooting Times" but that's about it.
Cast bullet shooting seems to involve more voodoo than jacketed bullet shooting - maybe not.
http://www.castbulletassoc.org
John Kielly
Shari's fan club
308 cast bullet load
Try 22 grains of IMR 4198 with a .5 grain nylon filler wad over the powder. My bullet is the Lyman 180 grain version of the #311467, Guy Loverin design.
This load is shooting 1" with iron sight for me at 100 yards - I am sure it would be much better with a scope.
Try 22 grains of IMR 4198 with a .5 grain nylon filler wad over the powder. My bullet is the Lyman 180 grain version of the #311467, Guy Loverin design.
This load is shooting 1" with iron sight for me at 100 yards - I am sure it would be much better with a scope.
H
henrya
Guest
Wilbur's link is a good start
I built a cast bullet benchrest rifle years ago. I used the UBBR Remington brass and made a cartridge that looked like a .30BR but with a very long neck. (.625") I called it the .30 CBBR (cast bullet bench rest). I shot 210 gr. bullets from a Hoch mold I had made to my specs to match the barrel. Fred Sinclair built the rifle on a 40X with a Hart barrel and it shot great.
The fit of the nose of the bullet into the rifling is critical. Accurate cast bullet designs have a two diameter body and nose. The body fits in the case neck which we hope is a good fit in the chamber neck. The nose of the bullet should fit in the throat where a good portion of the nose is supported and aligned by the bore/tops of the lands.
If you have a groove diameter of .308 and a bore diameter of .300 you might want a .3085 bullet body and a .300 nose. Maybe a hair bigger. Your chamber neck needs to take the loaded round with just a bit of clearance. I went for .001 each side or a total of .002 over loaded round.
In my version of a perfect world the nose would fit well into the rifling and when extracted would show light marks/scuffs from the rifling. The fit is such that you can extract the loaded round but no looser. Kinda like a tight .22 LR chamber but the long 210 gr. cast mostly cylindrical bullet fits up into the rifling more than a .22 or certainly more than any jacketed bullet round.
Getting a fit like this will help your factory rifle shoot better. Its more important than what powder charge or primer. Lots more important.
I built a cast bullet benchrest rifle years ago. I used the UBBR Remington brass and made a cartridge that looked like a .30BR but with a very long neck. (.625") I called it the .30 CBBR (cast bullet bench rest). I shot 210 gr. bullets from a Hoch mold I had made to my specs to match the barrel. Fred Sinclair built the rifle on a 40X with a Hart barrel and it shot great.
The fit of the nose of the bullet into the rifling is critical. Accurate cast bullet designs have a two diameter body and nose. The body fits in the case neck which we hope is a good fit in the chamber neck. The nose of the bullet should fit in the throat where a good portion of the nose is supported and aligned by the bore/tops of the lands.
If you have a groove diameter of .308 and a bore diameter of .300 you might want a .3085 bullet body and a .300 nose. Maybe a hair bigger. Your chamber neck needs to take the loaded round with just a bit of clearance. I went for .001 each side or a total of .002 over loaded round.
In my version of a perfect world the nose would fit well into the rifling and when extracted would show light marks/scuffs from the rifling. The fit is such that you can extract the loaded round but no looser. Kinda like a tight .22 LR chamber but the long 210 gr. cast mostly cylindrical bullet fits up into the rifling more than a .22 or certainly more than any jacketed bullet round.
Getting a fit like this will help your factory rifle shoot better. Its more important than what powder charge or primer. Lots more important.
G
Gerry
Guest
cast bullet benchrest
I did the same thing only with a 222
11 grs of 4198 7.5 primer and a 55 gr gas check bullet.
I was surprised at the accuracy. It shot well in to a half inch or less at 100yds.
That put a smile on my face for a while "
I did the same thing only with a 222
11 grs of 4198 7.5 primer and a 55 gr gas check bullet.
I was surprised at the accuracy. It shot well in to a half inch or less at 100yds.
That put a smile on my face for a while "
M
mike in co
Guest
the specific alloy and hardness, the fit to the bbl are the big obstacle, then getting the velocity to match the hardness.
if you are using purchased bullets and have not slugged your bbl...you are gonna have an up hill fight.
velocity is the end result of the pressure behind the bullet....too much prresure and the bullet upsets too much and things go down hill
in addition to the cba, try a seach for "cast boolits"
a less formal results driven site
mike
if you are using purchased bullets and have not slugged your bbl...you are gonna have an up hill fight.
velocity is the end result of the pressure behind the bullet....too much prresure and the bullet upsets too much and things go down hill
in addition to the cba, try a seach for "cast boolits"
a less formal results driven site
mike
jackie schmidt
New member
What Alloy
I would assume that the cast bullet Benchrest Rifles use an alloy about the same hardness as the old Hard Cast Semi-Watcutters that Elmer Keith made famous in his big Handguns.
I have pushed those things 1700 fps with no fouling at all.
What velocities do they usually shoot in Cast Bullet Benchrest??.......jackie
I would assume that the cast bullet Benchrest Rifles use an alloy about the same hardness as the old Hard Cast Semi-Watcutters that Elmer Keith made famous in his big Handguns.
I have pushed those things 1700 fps with no fouling at all.
What velocities do they usually shoot in Cast Bullet Benchrest??.......jackie
M
mike in co
Guest
jackie,
i dont shoot benchrest, but you can shoot cast up to 2200 fps ...maybe more. think the br crowd use low velocity.
some bullets are heat treated, or water quenched, alloys can be anything from soft lead(BLACK POWDER and or low velocity) up to linotype. common alloy used today is wheel weights plain or alloyed, heat treated ,air cooled, or water quenched.
lots of variables.....
mike
i dont shoot benchrest, but you can shoot cast up to 2200 fps ...maybe more. think the br crowd use low velocity.
some bullets are heat treated, or water quenched, alloys can be anything from soft lead(BLACK POWDER and or low velocity) up to linotype. common alloy used today is wheel weights plain or alloyed, heat treated ,air cooled, or water quenched.
lots of variables.....
mike
J
Just Mike
Guest
Cast bullet benchrest??
Is there such an animal? Is there an organized group? Just curious as this could be a hole (pardon the pun) new area to play in.
Is there such an animal? Is there an organized group? Just curious as this could be a hole (pardon the pun) new area to play in.
Last edited by a moderator:
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BenB
Guest
Cast bullet BR
Try http://www.castbulletassoc.org/forum/
As far as a 308 load try 30 grain Varget with a 180-190 bullet cast of linotype.
Try http://www.castbulletassoc.org/forum/
As far as a 308 load try 30 grain Varget with a 180-190 bullet cast of linotype.
H
henrya
Guest
lawrence magnum bullet alloy
Jackie,
I found Lawrence Magnum Bullet Alloy to be the best for rifle bullets. I don't think they sell it anymore but it was between wheel weights and linotype in hardness. The nice thing was that it was clean so it cast clean bullets.
Type metal is super hard and my preference for high velocity handgun bullets. At one time in the past I had more supply of type metal than I could use but those days are long gone.
Jackie,
I found Lawrence Magnum Bullet Alloy to be the best for rifle bullets. I don't think they sell it anymore but it was between wheel weights and linotype in hardness. The nice thing was that it was clean so it cast clean bullets.
Type metal is super hard and my preference for high velocity handgun bullets. At one time in the past I had more supply of type metal than I could use but those days are long gone.
D
DaRealViper
Guest
Thanks for the information.
Here are some of my better loads still not bughole yet.
Maybe I'll play with the oal or try the 180-190gr as they are longer the 165's
seat too deep.
.308 Winchester
Winchester Brass CCI 200 Primers
110Gr RN Cast or Jacketed
23.7 gr Hodgdon Lil Gun
27.7gr H4227
26.3 gr IMR SR4759
32.3 IMR 4198 also good with 125gr Nosler Btip
Good Reduced .223 Load
H4227 14.9gr
Fed Brass
CCI 400 Primers
55grfmj 2.255"OAL
Here are some of my better loads still not bughole yet.
Maybe I'll play with the oal or try the 180-190gr as they are longer the 165's
seat too deep.
.308 Winchester
Winchester Brass CCI 200 Primers
110Gr RN Cast or Jacketed
23.7 gr Hodgdon Lil Gun
27.7gr H4227
26.3 gr IMR SR4759
32.3 IMR 4198 also good with 125gr Nosler Btip
Good Reduced .223 Load
H4227 14.9gr
Fed Brass
CCI 400 Primers
55grfmj 2.255"OAL
Pete Wass
Well-known member
There seems to be
Severl years ago there was a Couple from Mass who use to come to Maine with BR rifles shooting cast bullets in 30 BR cases. They didn't seem to me to be very accurate. I am loath to speak ill of any shooting discipline but for me, if I was going to go to the lengths of making honest to god benchrest rifles, I wouldn't futz with Cast bullets. Any savings on bullets would be quickly overtaken by frustration !
Severl years ago there was a Couple from Mass who use to come to Maine with BR rifles shooting cast bullets in 30 BR cases. They didn't seem to me to be very accurate. I am loath to speak ill of any shooting discipline but for me, if I was going to go to the lengths of making honest to god benchrest rifles, I wouldn't futz with Cast bullets. Any savings on bullets would be quickly overtaken by frustration !
D
Dew
Guest
Marshall
FM was one of the best shooters of cast bullets and in one of his articles I remember he said if you can put a cast bullet into a 1.5 inch group at 100 yards most of the time, you have a very good gun and load. I've done that like most of us but I've never been able to do it for a long string of shots. About 8 or 10 is the best I can do using a sporter rifle.
All well,
W
FM was one of the best shooters of cast bullets and in one of his articles I remember he said if you can put a cast bullet into a 1.5 inch group at 100 yards most of the time, you have a very good gun and load. I've done that like most of us but I've never been able to do it for a long string of shots. About 8 or 10 is the best I can do using a sporter rifle.
All well,
W
W
Wingnut
Guest
Cast Bullet Association
Hi guys,
I'm Dan Willems, currently treasurer for the Cast Bullet Association. The question about such a thing as cast bullet benchrest? Is yes, it is alive and vibrant across the US, with members in Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and Europe. We have 23 clubs across the US holding CBA Registered BR matches. In 2004 we adopted a Military Rifle BR program which now includes 4 classes of rifles. The CBA has a National Tournament every year the weekend after Labor Day. I won the Grand Trophy in NT05 & NT06 with a box-stock Savage M12 in 308Win. The guy that won it this year won it with a Ruger M77 in 243Win hitting 5-shot groups into the .2s". The picture below is my practice target and deciding load for elevation & temp. before the NT06 at EEGC in Springfield, OR. Don't mean to toot my horn, but just wanting you guys to know how well CBs will shoot. The National Records are pretty tight, with about half of the NT line capable of hitting records in their class.............thanks.
Hi guys,
I'm Dan Willems, currently treasurer for the Cast Bullet Association. The question about such a thing as cast bullet benchrest? Is yes, it is alive and vibrant across the US, with members in Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and Europe. We have 23 clubs across the US holding CBA Registered BR matches. In 2004 we adopted a Military Rifle BR program which now includes 4 classes of rifles. The CBA has a National Tournament every year the weekend after Labor Day. I won the Grand Trophy in NT05 & NT06 with a box-stock Savage M12 in 308Win. The guy that won it this year won it with a Ruger M77 in 243Win hitting 5-shot groups into the .2s". The picture below is my practice target and deciding load for elevation & temp. before the NT06 at EEGC in Springfield, OR. Don't mean to toot my horn, but just wanting you guys to know how well CBs will shoot. The National Records are pretty tight, with about half of the NT line capable of hitting records in their class.............thanks.
Attachments
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Wingnut
Guest
Cast Bullet Load Data
Oh DaReal,
Bullet fit is the most critical for BR accuracy. Either in a 308 or 30BR - 6BR the cb needs to rest solidly in the neck and lightly engrave into the throat. Linotype metal is the easiest to cast and shoot up to 2,200fps, usually with powders such as 30gr Varget, 28gr H4895 or N133, 26gr N130.
If you buy bullets (or cast you own), seat them to engrave into the throat and lands. Mild loads in the 30 cals. with shoot good groups for plinking at about 1,600fps at 1"-1.5" groups usually with powdes such as 16gr Aliant 2400(not old Hercules), 18gr SR4759, 21gr 4198, 18-20gr AA5744. These powder choices work great for old 30-06 Springfields, 30-40 krags and the now popular Swiss K-31 in 7.5x55.
I know this ain't really bench rest 'stuff', but it can be really really intersting shooting factory rifles and military rifles in BR competitions and even better hitting into one-hole BR groups..............Wingnut
Oh DaReal,
Bullet fit is the most critical for BR accuracy. Either in a 308 or 30BR - 6BR the cb needs to rest solidly in the neck and lightly engrave into the throat. Linotype metal is the easiest to cast and shoot up to 2,200fps, usually with powders such as 30gr Varget, 28gr H4895 or N133, 26gr N130.
If you buy bullets (or cast you own), seat them to engrave into the throat and lands. Mild loads in the 30 cals. with shoot good groups for plinking at about 1,600fps at 1"-1.5" groups usually with powdes such as 16gr Aliant 2400(not old Hercules), 18gr SR4759, 21gr 4198, 18-20gr AA5744. These powder choices work great for old 30-06 Springfields, 30-40 krags and the now popular Swiss K-31 in 7.5x55.
I know this ain't really bench rest 'stuff', but it can be really really intersting shooting factory rifles and military rifles in BR competitions and even better hitting into one-hole BR groups..............Wingnut
M
mike in co
Guest
wingnut,
what alloy were you shooting and any hardness treating.....water dropped, oven heat treat.
thanks
mike
what alloy were you shooting and any hardness treating.....water dropped, oven heat treat.
thanks
mike