Brass maintenance??

S

skeetlee

Active member
Well i had a great weekend at the east west shoot, even though i got schooled. I meet a lot of good folks and learned a few things about the sport, it was great!! Anyway i now have two matches under my belt and i have some questions on what to do with my brass. I used new brass for each of the two shoot rotating about 20 to 30 pieces each time. I have this brass separated into bags so i know what it is and i plan on using it for practice. what i would like to know is if i should go ahead and have this brass annealed, and if so is there anyone doing this for hire? How many times fired should you expect to get out of a piece if Lapua 6ppc brass before its no good? The pockets are still nice and tight and i feel like its still in pretty good shape. So if i have this brass annealed will it be almost as good as new?? Whats the proper steps to taking care of this stuff? I could anneal it myself but i would rather pay someone with a machine that way there are no questions in the back of my mind. Thanks Lee
 
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skeetlee said:
Well i had a great weekend at the east west shoot, even though i got schooled. I meet a lot of good folks and learned a few things about the sport, it was great!! Anyway i now have two matches under my belt and i have some questions on what to do with my brass. I used new brass for each of the two shoot rotating about 20 to 30 pieces each time. I have this brass separated into bags so i know what it is and i plan on using it for practice. what i would like to know is if i should go ahead and have this brass annealed, and if so is there anyone doing this for hire? How many times fired should you expect to get out of a piece if Lapua 6ppc brass before its no good? The pockets are still nice and tight and i feel like its still in pretty good shape. So if i have this brass annealed will it be almost as good as new?? Whats the proper steps to taking care of this stuff? I could anneal it myself but i would rather pay someone with a machine that way there are no questions in the back of my mind. Thanks Lee
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Greg...
I'm just learning so I will make more mistakes than most! When I was just shooting varming rifles and fireforming brass for those wildcats and now that I have a couple of matches ubder my belt as well, here is what I'm starting to go to.
Obviously weigh your brass into lots, preferably the same weight or 1 tenth variance (after the first fireforming and trimming if necessary, I trim all of my brass to the shortest one in the batch), champher then weight sort. As I'm shooting them the second time, when I have a shot that is out and not called...I put that piece of brass aside and continue to shoot, this doesn't mean that the brass is not good, it's just been the brass for an uncalled bad shot. I now have brass in piles according to weight that have shot well in group. My next match, I'll be using 5 good pieces of brass for record and the others for foulers and sighters...during a 5 target (25 shot match) and if you want more brass, its time to start working in new brass to be fireformed and use them as foulers and sighters... just my $.02 worth
Mark
 
What exactly is one trying to learn with a Suspect round in th Sighter? Is it to confirm the round is suspect or to try to prove it isn't? I don't know about anyone else but in a match when I shoot in the sighter I am trying to find a way to win.
 
Lee,
As far as I am aware, none of the major players in short range centerfire Benchrest anneals his cases. If you pay close attention to how much you bump shoulders and have a properly fitting FL die, cases can last a very long time. The main issue is no how long they last, but whether freshly formed cases shoot better. That, you can determine for yourself. Just clean necks after use, don't clean the insides to bare brass, and keep them trimmed,very slightly deburred, and chamfered (VLD), primer pockest sorta clean, and size them just before you use them. Do not tumble or vibrate. You might want to also pay attention to the seating force required within a given set and shoot those with a similar feel together. Also, as your cases work harden, your die will have to be slightly adjusted to get the bump that you want. I gauge bump on the first case of the set, every time I start a new rotation on that set. Unless you know that you have fired every caase in a group the same number of times, and that all of their neck tensions feel the same, when seating bullets, bagging cases may not be the best way to go. I prefer to leave them boxed.
Boyd
 
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I really meant... :<)..to use those "suspect cases" as foulers, not sighters! Although I suspect that those suspect brass for the most part, are far less suspect than I am and will be tried again within a group...I suspect! ;-)

Pete Wass said:
What exactly is one trying to learn with a Suspect round in th Sighter? Is it to confirm the round is suspect or to try to prove it isn't? I don't know about anyone else but in a match when I shoot in the sighter I am trying to find a way to win.
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Ya thats one thing i was doing while shooting the sighter. the winds were all over the place and it was very informational to see how the different conditions effected the bullets. even similar (looking) conditions would blow the bullet two rings out at 200 on Sunday. I could put 3 and sometimes even 4 shots pretty close but i wasnt able to get all five were they needed. It was a great challenge though. I really enjoyed every part of the experience. Ill just shoot this brass until i feel like the pockets are worn out. Is it really necessary to weight sort and all that for point blank benchrest? I wouldnt think so, but i dont know much!! Thanks Lee
 
I tumbled my thinwall 6ppc brass once, just once. Dinged up those fragile mouths pretty good. I haven't tumbled a piece of brass for any cartridge since.
Theres no trophy for shiniest brass
 
Keep your brass trimmed and properly bumped to about .002, as Boyd suggested, shoot them about twenty times each and junk them. I take it your using Lapua brass and there is no need to weigh or measure it. But....put most of you effort in reading those flags and develop your condition reading ability. That will pay off much more than any brass twinking you can do.

virg
 
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My only concern with the annealing question is so that all my brass will be the same as far as spring back is concerned. I didnt really have any pattern as to what pieces of brass i shot or how many times it went to the line. Some may have been shot 6or 7 times others maybe 12 times?? if i can have them annealed for 20 bucks i think i would go ahead and have it done if it will restore them back to being all equal? Lee
 
jo191145 said:
I tumbled my thinwall 6ppc brass once, just once. Dinged up those fragile mouths pretty good. I haven't tumbled a piece of brass for any cartridge since.
Theres no trophy for shiniest brass
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Were you perhaps tumbling your brass with rocks? I tumble my brass each and every time in a Lyman Turbo tumbler which is actually not a tumbler at all but a vibrating bowl. I use Lymans corn cob media and I have never suffered any damaged necks in 15 or so years I have been doing this. I find it very helpful in inspecting my necks for separations which do sometimes happen since I use the same Brass for the entire life of the Barrel.

Dick
 
Skeet, Sorry I missed you in St. Louis maybe in Sept. If you do not have a cartridge box to take to the line might I suggest the competition cartridge box by Joe Maisto who advertizes on this site. It holds 25 cases and you can put a strip of masking tape down the side to keep record of number of times fired.
I shoot my new brass at a match and then use them for practice. I am at 15x now but I usually stop at 30 to 35 times reloaded.
Centerfire
 
Centerfire
Thanks for the reply. I do have one of those nice 25 count 50$ boxes and i even use it! LOL!! I was just a little nervous and maybe a touch frustrated with my shooting and i just wasnt all that organised. I will be the next go around for sure. I took way to much stuff with me this time, and i just didnt stay collective. Lessons learned. I had a great time and i even shot a few really good targets. It was those really bad targets that hurt so much. With the kind of shooters that were at this match one bad target and its over!! Another thing that happened on Sunday was my bolt stop on my BAT action fell out. I didnt realise it, and when i tried shooting fast for that particular condition, i ripped the bolt out of the rifle and thankfully it landed in my lap. That kinda screwed me up a bit, and right after that happened my rifle stop on my JJ rest came loose. All i could do was laugh it off. Its these little things that i didnt give enough attention to, that came back to bite me a bit. Plus my deal lovely wife was at home passing a kidney stone or two, and i knew in the back of my stubborn mind, i should pack my things up and go home. Of course she said stay and enjoy yourself, but we all know what that really means. LOL!! It was fun, but i will do a few things different next go around! Thanks fellas! Lee
 
Well just for kicks,
I bought a torch and annealed my brass.
Trimmed the cases
Returned the necks
AND
Decided to check for concentricity. What I found was that most 2/3 of the cases were .001 - .0015 variance.
1/3 were up to .004. I tried running them through the sizing die again thinking this should straighten everything, since when I check my cases normally they are .001 or less.
HOWEVER no change, so I decided to run one back through the expander and then back into the sizer again. NO change so I finally gave up and fire formed the same one that was .004 out. I did this the way I always do, usually with bullseye and wax wow back to less than .001.
So for me I have learned that when annealing sometimes cases may warp a little or whatever you want to call it.
Ill shoot them in the match this weekend and see what happens.
 
Skeet, I do nothing to my 6PPC or 30BR Brass that I use in competition except run a nylon brush in the neck, (by hand), do a quick wipe with the primer pocket cleaner, put some sizing wax on, and size them. I really believe that all of the other stuff is a waste of time.

I do replace the 6PPC brass on regular basis, (probably a couple of Grand Aggs), but the 30BR seems to last forever. The 12 cases I shot at Midland on my record run had been used in at least 4 aggregates, plus practice.

But, as has been said, much of this depends on how much you are sizing the brass. This is a case where just enough is perfect, but too much could shorten the life considerably. I have sizing dies that hit the body just enough to where it goes in and comes out easy, while hitting the shoulder any where from .001 to .002.

There is an interesting story in Glenn Newicks Book, where a veteran shooter saw a rookie throw a piece of brass that he has just fired out into the middle of the range. He asked what he was doing, the novis said that every time a shot goes where it shouldn't, he would throw that piece of brass away. The veteran shooter told him that if he kept that up, he wouldn't have any cases left at the end of the week end.:D.......jackie
 
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Brass Maintenence.
Skeet:
In the article "Secrets of the Houston Wharehouse Shooting Article" Virgil stated the secrets of shooting their very small groups consistently was in their brass preperation and care of.
Last month at the East/West shoot Mr Neary emphasized how important brass preperation and care of was in his opinion.
I think all would agree that before shooting a match all cases should be properly prepped to include proper neck wall thickness, OAL, neck brushed with nylon brush, primer pocket cleaned and primer placed approiately.
Now the question is which steps of the above can be ommited in your practice cases and will it matter???
Maybe the answer lies in the next question--Would you use bulk bullets labeled "Dog Town Bullets" for practice .
There does not appear to be any easy way (or inexpensive) to be and stay competitive.
Annealing does not appear to be on a to do list of very many.
This is a good question and their are some who will differ.

My opion only
CLP
 
I think i touched on this above, my only real concern was how much actual neck tension i was getting from one piece of brass to the next. I didnt shoot each piece of brass the exact same number of times, so i was concerned with how much case hardening i had from each different piece of brass. I didnt know if annealing would bring them all back to equal?In reality it doesnt seem to matter a hole lot from what i am gathering here and from the phone conversations i have had over the last few weeks from some other well respected shooters here on the forum. If i ever run across a good deal on an anneal machine i may buy it, but i usually dont have the extra cash for items such as that, so i am not going to worry a hole lot about it at this time. I have learned a lot from this post and i appreciate the responses. This is truly a great place!! Thanks Lee
 
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