Benchrest handicap

I didn't say "all millennials", I was generalizing. I'm in business, we hire millennials, they suck compared to previous generations, they come and go, work ethics suck, and this was all caused by being babied by their parents and the environment they grew up in. If you don't believe my analogy on millennials I can put you in touch with my daughter and son-in-law. They hire and deal with them daily. Either this is fact or we just are hiring the wrong ones. I remember my Grandpa saying over 50 years ago that I would never amount to anything. Maybe he was right.
 
Last edited:
I quoted Tim, Dave, not you. It looks like you may be hiring the wrong ones or mishandling them. I hire them too, they either shape up quick or get shipped out, three of them work for me now and they're good guys.
 
I'm a project manager for an industrial construction company. I know how hard it is to find younger people to work. Most want top money right now at 19 years old can't do a thing but think they should be paid top money because I'm me and I want it now. Most have no interest in putting in the time to learn a trade they come and go.
Note I have used the words most and your average to describe my thoughts on the millennial
There are a few exceptions out there
 
I can see the light...

Weren't we arguing about how to grow BR before we started arguing about millennials? Just sayin..
 
Tim Singleton said:
I'm a project manager for an industrial construction company. I know how hard it is to find younger people to work. Most want top money right now at 19 years old can't do a thing but think they should be paid top money because I'm me and I want it now. Most have no interest in putting in the time to learn a trade they come and go.
Note I have used the words most and your average to describe my thoughts on the millennial
There are a few exceptions out there
Click to expand...

The millenials were raised by the parents who were raised by the Benjamin Spock methodology....don't spank, don't tell them NO! They can play a mindless video game but they don't know how to put gas in a lawn mower let alone replace the string on a weed eater!

Some of the ones I know ARE mindless...put their sorry ass in Army or Marine Basic Training till they grow up!

.
 
I wonder how much it would take to PAY folks to shoot? Maybe include motels, meals, gas, and other expenses also.
 
sandiego1948 said:
You will not get them to show up and try with a $40-50 match fee.[/QUOTE

What is the right price for you ? Do you expect the club to pay prize money? Buy trophies? Fixed costs to run a match at a MINIMUM are targets, staples backboard replacements, etc... How do you suggest these costs be covered? Do the shooters hang targets or does the club pay a target crew? How does the upkeep for benches and other " benchrest specific " needs get covered ? Remember not all club members will be benchrest shooters do you expect them to subsidize your shooting?
Click to expand...
 
The UBR format has proven to work and still has a lot of room to grow. Factory, modified, custom and unlimited classes, low entry fees...I don't recall it mentioned, but IBS and NBRSA have an annual membership requirement on top of match fees...UBR does not. Some factory shooters come and go, but a good percentage stay and move up.

I think I've already mentioned my point that score matches are much more range friendly, match director friendly and you get a full day of shooting in while contesting for a grand agg.

Young blood shooters of this sport have jobs. Six day shoots are not an inducement to the new guy...IMHO.
 
I read the first 30 posts. I shoot 22 BR and it is deader than what you describe.

At The Chippewa County, Sault Sainte Marie, MI range we shoot the USBR target (green monster).
That target was designed to be shot at 50 yards. We shoot at 25 and 50 yards. The now decesaed rifle shooter organizer of all time, Joe Haller, recgonized a long time ago that many shooters came, shot one match or one target, and never came back. Thus the 25 yard shooting at "Yooper Shoots."

I started with a Mossberg 22 squirrel gun and Dynapoints. I dont recall the score but I bet I barely broke 200 out of 250, at 25 yards. Never fired 50 yards. At that time Joe had several young families shooting plus his grandkids. Common shooter numbers was 20-25. A couple shooters came over 100 miles to the matches.

Now the youngest shooter is well in the 50s and most retired as I read about your shooters in the first couple pages of posts here. The last family had trouble buying a brick of black box back when it was $65. SA brick would get them thru a week eve practice and the match, or two matches, generally. Targets are a measly $2 and one can shoot up to 4/gun and score the best.

Matches start at 930 or 10 or when you get there up to about noon. Those of us that travel find that nice. Now parking/camping and benches are not crowded.

Ive taken shooters, mostly family members. Most beat me w/ my own equip which Ive upgraded since the squirrel gun. I have a standing carpool offer for riders along the 100 mi interstate but am waiting for my first call.

I dont know the answer to more shooters. On our case we have recruited several from N of the border or I suspect we'd not be having matches. My next opportunity for a match is S about 120 mi at another club that has had less than 10 shooters at the couple matches I attended there.
That pretty well means that there is a 225 mi gap between matches here in N MI. I suspect that has something to do with it but it is a two way street.

I just read and like Jackie Schmidts past #101, Sounds like USBR at 50 yards, second para.
 
Last edited:
mwezell said:
The UBR format has proven to work and still has a lot of room to grow. Factory, modified, custom and unlimited classes, low entry fees...I don't recall it mentioned, but IBS and NBRSA have an annual membership requirement on top of match fees...UBR does not. Some factory shooters come and go, but a good percentage stay and move up.

I think I've already mentioned my point that score matches are much more range friendly, match director friendly and you get a full day of shooting in while contesting for a grand agg.

Young blood shooters of this sport have jobs. Six day shoots are not an inducement to the new guy...IMHO.
Click to expand...


Curious as to how many shooters show up at a Score Nationals​ and how many days does it run?

Dave
 
Joe Haller was indeed the best, and greatest, match organizer of all time. He was purely relentless in the quest for competitive shooters. I thought him wrong on a number of items...but it turned out he wasn't as wrong as I thought.

I forfeited a couple of years trying to interest new shooters in the game of benchrest and it turned out to be a one man show. Certainly, it was a good idea and we reaped several continuing shooters. Jeff Gaidos quickly comes to mind but there are others. Equipment wasn't a problem. I won an action at the Super Shoot or the nationals and others donated money and time to build a complete sporter rifle. Charles Ellertson, Gary Price, Kelbly's, James Messer, Billy Stevens etc... Bart Sauter and Brady Knight donated bullets, Lynwood Harrell and company donated a powder drop...and several more great folks that I don't remember donated other stuff. Wait, Charlie Hood was there with the press and cleaning rods. The one man show I mention above came on match day and rightfully so. If you think you can win, or even shoot respectably, a centerfire group match while helping other guys get to the firing line with all they need to shoot you're mistaken. I had a lot of fun and considered that a reasonable contribution but it turns out I just had fun. The contribution part of all that turned out to be something I just dreamed up.
 
Dave Coots said:
Curious as to how many shooters show up at a Score Nationals​ and how many days does it run?

Dave
Click to expand...

Hi Dave! Your question gets right to my point about how much less is involved in holding a score match vs a group match. Typically speaking, 75-100 guns and 2 days. Actually, we haven't broken 100 yet but got close. It's still growing. There are a couple of new ranges this year that are holding matches in new territories. Hopefully, they will be enough to put us over 100 at this year's Nationals.

In the UBR format, this would be 4 classes and 2 yardages contested over 2 days. 96 guns, 8 relays per day, with as few as 12 benches, is a long day but is doable. Obviously, more benches makes it easier and fewer relays, but that gets to my point as well...That being, having more ranges is of utmost importance to having matches at all. I really believe that a huge factor in growing our sport is making it easier for the clubs, hence making our sport more accessible to more shooters. I think the percentage of new shooters that are willing to drive 500 miles each way to "try" our sport is statistically almost nil. Add to that, that young blood will typically have a job and a family. Matches that are several days long is another reason why new shooters simply can't take part in them, regularly.

Those of us that travel long distances, for several days, to shoot in a match, are a special breed. We have to recognize that when discussing growing our sport.

JMHO, but I think focus should be given to the clubs first and to the needs of those running the matches. Then, to the participants. Then, further down the list...our feelings about keeping the game "pure" to those that resist change.

Score matches in general do a better job of addressing these issues than does group.
 
Last edited:
Wilbur said:
I forfeited a couple of years trying to interest new shooters in the game of benchrest..and we reaped several continuing shooters....I had a lot of fun and considered that a reasonable contribution but it turns out I just had fun. The contribution part of all that turned out to be something I just dreamed up.
Click to expand...

It sounds to me like your contribution was more than a dream.
 
sandiego1948 said:
You will not get them to show up and try with a $40-50 match fee.
Click to expand...

As people have said the entry fee is a lot less than the cost of participating at a match, fuel, bullets powder, primers, barrel etc. If the entry fee is what is stopping you then as some have said perhaps you should look for a cheaper sport.............I've seen mountain bikes that cost more than all my shooting gear put together.

But out of interest what is the cost of entry fee that will allow YOU to compete at registered matches??
Where are you located and what would be a registered match YOU would like to compete at if the entry fees were affordable to you??

The cheap matches should be the club matches, but the entry fees still need to cover the costs............registered Benchrest isn't a club match.

There have been some good ideas in this thread and the one about having people to organise shoots is probably the biggest hurdle, the other is Benchrest schools or experienced shooters to mentor other shooters.

I can't see a "handicap" system working as it would just take more manpower to administer and that is something (manpower) that is in short supply now, so increasing the workload is only going to reduce the number of people that put themselves forward to orgainse and run matches.



One question I have though is "Has Benchrest become all about winning, and not about participating in a sport you enjoy?

If it has then 95% of the competitors may as well stay at home because only one person will win, or do we need to create enough classes/handicaps so that every competitor will have a chance of winning?

If this happened how many of the existing Benchrest competitors would carry on competing?

Ian
 
Ian, over the decades I have shot in many disciplines of competition shooting. All but benchrest have had some sort of handicapping to help bring newer shooters up to speed with the veterans. For example, when I shot registered trap, ATA, I attended their "nationals" The Grand American" for about 10 years. every time there were over 30,000 entries, or about 3,200 shooters.

Handicapping is not about giving millennials a Warm Puppy to take home. It is about getting novices something to relate to....a win.

Has registered benchrest become all about winning. YES. And unfortunately,, yes, winning to the point our benchrest as we shoot it has become "monkey see, monkey do"! I.E. If a Tony, a Larry, or a Gene shoots with a Tootsie Roll duct taped to their barrel, before the next shoot buy Tootsie Roll stock on NASDAC.

.
 
Off Yer Ass!

Everyone who has an idea ,and there are some fine ones,to garner participation, get yourself a piece of property, make it a gun range and set it up the way you want it to run. Build frames, firing lines what ever you want, charge what you will, host the alphabet games the way you see fit...lemme know how it turns out.
 
stump said:
Everyone who has an idea ,and there are some fine ones,to garner participation, get yourself a piece of property, make it a gun range and set it up the way you want it to run. Build frames, firing lines what ever you want, charge what you will, host the alphabet games the way you see fit...lemme know how it turns out.
Click to expand...

David, the Triple Crown is in 4 weeks. Mosey on up!

.
 
Handicap

My Son and I shot actively from about 2002-2008.h

We shot pretty well even won a match or two. I really enjoyed the shooting and the people. Wilbur, Billy Stevens were very supportive. There were many more... two many to name. Brady Knight sold me my first rifle.

I am lucky to have had the resources to buy what I needed to be competitive. This sport is worse than Top Fuel. There is no easy way to get started. It takes a bunch of dollars up front to be competitive from just an equipment standpoint.

We need in bench rest a factory class, caliber limited like f/tr F class. Bi pods or simple rests.
The exposure to the people and the fun they will have will encourage some to step up to a full BR
setup.

I'm coming back to matches in the SE this year.
I'm looking forward to seeing the people I have missed.

I really like the challenge of shooting little holes but if we don't start
bringing in new people Bench Rest as we know it is going to die.

Kevin
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top