Bat SV and SB Ignition questions??

CYanchycki

CYanchycki

Club Coordinator
The listed actions above have the short bolt which is known for short firing pin fall. The protrusion on either are within the .050-.060. The firing pin fall is around the .200. Supposedly using the 0/30 trigger hanger would give more fall but would/could increase bolt closing force.

Is it something to REALLY WORRY about?

Has anyone modified the firing pin to increase firing pin fall instead of the trigger hanger?

What about spring force? They are around 19lbs. One action is 3 years old and the other was new last year. Something that should be looked at? or ignore all of the above if it is not broke?

What would you fellas do?

Calvin
 
I was under the impression that the popular method to modify BATs' ignition systems was to add weight with tungsten.
 
Does it shoot????????

Honestly cannot say........ I still consider myself new at this here game.

Side note to the above question, it is pretty hard to know if the rifle shoots when the only mentor at your doorstep is yourself the phone and internet. So I have to try and figure this crap out myself......

This is more of idea finding mission. I am not about to have this rifle torn into at the start of our shooting season. I am not overly concerned but it does stick in the back of my mind. We will see how the season starts out.

I am going to talk with the fellas at BAT and see if they have a stiffer spring for these little actions and get the 0-30 trigger hangers.

Calvin
 
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Calvin, I would strongly suggest that you send both your bolts out to a gunsmith that specializes in fixing the ignition issues that are inherent with these short bolts. Dwight Scott, Dave Bruno, and Wayne Campbell come to mind.
 
In general, you want to have about .240 minimum fall on the pin without a primer in it. (hard stop inside bolt) It is hard to make up for travel with spring force or additional weight. Additional weight tends to slow the pin, but helps if there is any drag. Our experience with the standard Rem type of pin is that .220 or less is not very desirable. It is hard to add enough spring or mass to fix that. Small rifle primers from Federal are a little forgiving, but that is kind of our spec. As a note of interest, we bought a bunch of old 308 machine gun ammo to test our actions with. It had HARD primers in them. A factory Rem or Savage wouldnt even reliable fire them. Our Viper with a 20 lb spring and .250 fall wouldnt either. I put a 25 lb spring in it and no go. I made a longer hanger and put .300 fall instead with both springs and it fired like a big dog. That extra .050 made the most difference. If you look at the energy equations, it made sense too. I wouldnt fix a problem you dont have, but extra travel is most effective. Only problem is that a lot of br guys dont like the "Cock on close" feel they get on the bolt when it picks up the trigger at the last moment. I never let that bother me. I prefer it to have enough fall and dont even notice the timing thing anymore so I usually put our hangers on the longer pull setting.
 
Calvin,

If I remember right, we have emailed/PM'd about this. The two best Bat SV's that I owned, were fine as they were, when trying heavy spring and weight added, it didn't help them. However, two others, it did help. If your around 19 or 20 lbs with .200 fall, your in the ballpark. If you spin your hanger around and get .220 to .230 fall, you won't even notice it on opening and closing. At least I didn't on mine.

A couple of things to check first. One, is the firing pin straight? You can check this by diassembling. While you have it apart, go ahead and check the shroud and cocking mechanism for rub and also while you have it apart, drill the hole that is in the shroud that the cocking indicator goes through, a little larger. This is simple but you don't have to get carried away. The shroud is the biggest offender in BAT's occasional ignition problems. If you feel like it, you can change the firing pin spring to a heavier one with it's apart. If you find a problem with the shroud and cocking rub, get it fixed in the way as described in Tony's book.

After you have it all back together and start shooting, if you get a weird flyer every now and then, try replacing the trigger. Some triggers have more drag than others and this is important on any action but especially the BAT's.

Hovis
 
I agree with Jerry

There is no substitute for travel, .210 to .220 is dead minimum, IMHO.

I have 22+ pound springs in my Farleys and my Diamond Back Drop Ports. In the Farleys, I had to modify my own trigger hangers to get enough travel. The early Farleys were notorious for only having about .150 fall.

Many shooters do not like heavy spring pressure because you just can't flip that bolt open. But on every Rifle I have, they shoot better with 22+..........jackie
 
Thanks gents for your comments. I have heard what I need to hear.

3 names were mentioned in regards to solving ignition problems. I do not know if I have any. I am not leaving anything to chance. I played rock paper scissors and one will be receiving a package.

Calvin
 
How do you measure how much fall you have on the pin? I always use the #30 hanger so it probably doesnt even matter but i would still like to know. Lee
 
Lee according to Tony's book he shows measuring it through the firing pin hole. An easier way would be through the hole of the bolt shroud. Cock the rifle and get a reading where the back of the firing pin is sitting in the bolt shroud. Pull the trigger and measure through the hole. Then do the math.

I do not know if I have any issues but like I said I am my own mentor along whatever GOOD information I gather from the few people I feel are worthy of listening to. I am not taking anything to chance. I think it will be worth the money spent if not for piece of mind.

If the consensus is .055 protrusion, min firing pin fall of .225, and a spring in the 20-23lb range, I want to have that, PERIOD. I will keep you posted when I am back and running with the results.

I know there is more than likely a lot out there who have winning SV or SB combinations that are stock but I am not even sure if mine is capable??????? :^(

Calvin
 
My first ppc was a little SV action that Lester Bruno built. That action was something special i do believe. I shouldn't have sold it, but i didnt like the stock that it was glued to. I figured what the heck, the next BAT action will be the exact same, so i sold the hole rifle. Come to find out, my next BAT action although very nice, it wasn't the same!! That little action just felt different, sounded different and definitely shot different!! I wish i had it back!!! I think we all have one of these stories though!! Good post! Lee
 
skeetlee said:
My first ppc was a little SV action that Lester Bruno built. That action was something special i do believe. I shouldn't have sold it, but i didnt like the stock that it was glued to. I figured what the heck, the next BAT action will be the exact same, so i sold the hole rifle. Come to find out, my next BAT action although very nice, it wasn't the same!! That little action just felt different, sounded different and definitely shot different!! I wish i had it back!!! I think we all have one of these stories though!! Good post! Lee
Click to expand...

Lee I know what you are saying I have an SV that is bone stock and just seems to shoot, but only when I do my part. Would I sell it.......NO WAY it just feels smoother and better than my B......Ian
 
Trigger hangers:

How does one determine what # their trigger hanger is and which one they need to go to to increase Pinn Fall? I checked my Model B and it has about .200" fall the way it was set up from the Smith. I tried reversing the hanger last night and lost pin fall. Any help would be appreciated. Also, is BAT receptive to working with folks on these issues? Thanks, Pete
 
Pete, as was said before, you can keep moving the trigger hanger back in relation to the trigger untill you get that "cock on closing" feel.

Both of my Farleys, in order to get the .230 I wanted, do have a little clock on closing. I don't mind, others do.

Your action aready has the hanger turned so that it gets as much travel as that hanger will allow.

Bat is pretty good about working with shooters on issues. But, they will probably tell you .200 is enough..........jackie
 
Thanks Jackie,

The only way I can see to move the hanger back more would be to elongate the screw holes and trim the back of it but it doesn't look like I can ge much that way. I sure hate to send it off to someone to make changes though. The rifle seems to shoot pretty well but they can always be better I figure :).
 
Just to clarify something with this thread. Nothing has been said in the manner but I want tomakeit clear that this thread is NOT to question the integrity of the manufacturer. It was more in a information gathering session.

It would be no different than someone why buys a vehicle. They are made to what the manufacturer thinks is needed to make it run and be safe. But, there are all these aftermarket things we can do to possibly make it better. That is basically what I amtrying to do.

Will I see a difference? I hope so. What I have read and heard discussed numerous times is the specs that is felt will give CONSISTENT ignition. I felt my rifles did not fall into that category so I have set out to make it fit that category.

I am not suggesting everyone has a problem but it is something to think about if you find a good shooting rifle has had an about face. For myself I would say my rifle was never consistent. It was a big tease. Man I like big teases................. ;^)

Why take anything to chance? If rifles out there shoot great don't touch it. If I ever feel I have a winner of a rifle I will never change anything other than barrels. I would never sell it cause I dislike the stock or color. Hang on to those gems so you never regret it in the future.

Lee mentioned he wishes he never got rid of his little SV cause it felt different and shot well. Well I have a 3 year old Bat and one almost a year old. The year old one feels hands down smoother than the 3 year old. It has only been shot at one match and that was the Nationals in Kansas. For a first timer at a major shooting event the best finish I had was 32 out of 160 in HV 100. The groups were not small but what I saw in spite of the wind was a lot of better shooters and Hall of Famers behind me that day. That gives me the incentive and hope that this new rifle has.

Pete in regards to your trigger hanger it is as Jackie said in his last 2 sentences. I am not sure I would get too wound up about it. Put it back to where the pin travels the furthest. If you feel it is a shooter I would leave it at that. The hanger I believe it is other than a standard hanger will be stamped with the numbers on it. Mine are both standard hangars. So I know I can get a 0/30and increase fall .030. I will see what I have after things get looked at.

Later
Calvin
 
After reading all of this i measured the pin travel on all my BAT actions. What i found was that most of the action i have had right around .230 of fall. However, my BAT 3 Lug action has around .280. Not sure why it has so much more fall than the others, but it does, and it shoots pretty darn good as well. Actually all my BAT action shoot well. I truly dont have any BAT actions that i feel would gain anything by spending 100 bucks on and having modifications done to it. Now i am not a world class rifle shooter by any means, but i do pay close attention to detail, and i just dont see were they would gain anything. Maybe i am only fooling myself, and i just MIGHT send one of my bolts to Dave Bruno and have the mods done just for comparison reasons?? We will see. Right now i am saving my cash for more barrels. I am going to buy as many barrels as i can this year with my concrete work money. Good read. I like this topic for some strange reason? Lee
 
Lee you more than likely will not see a difference but one will never know. If St. Louis or Ohio were a LOT closer, I know I would be miles ahead of where I am. There would be many people in the mentoring department and gunsmiths who SPECIALIZE in the game.

I have to watch what I say to not PO the guys that I shoot up here in the Great White North. With these potential learning experiences and the Import Export regulations, I learned that it would be far easier to have a rifle built states side and import it up. All the possible issues can be hashed out before it crosses the line. That is reality.

Calvin
 
Hi Calvin,Do you have 2 guns if so shoot against yourself with the different guns.See if one is noticably better.
 
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