As a Veteran, I am Appalled
- Thread starter jackie schmidt
- Start date
M
Mozella
Guest
Well I know one thing that happened. The Officer in Charge of that two boat detachment gave an apology the the Iranians in less than 24 hours in captivity and his face looked unmarked. As an ex Naval Officer I find that disappointing.
I flew 153 combat missions in North Viet Nam many of my squadron mates were shot down and captured. Those who returned reported to me that eventually the captors can beat you down to the point that you'll confess to just about anything. Sometimes you have good days and refuse to tell them anything as they beat you into unconsciousness and on your bad days all the inquisitor has to do is raise his arm and you'll say anything. I was told that this eventually happened to everyone; nevertheless, nearly every POW did his very best under unbelievably harsh circumstances, most of them resisted over many many years. And even after hitting rock bottom, these men bounced back with the help of their follow POWs and kept fighting in their own way.
Some died because they resisted on their particularly strong day at the same time their captors also refused to relent. They were simply beaten to death. God bless them.
So, in and of itself, making a confession or making a forced statement isn't problematic under certain circumstances as far as I'm concerned. Many Viet Nam POWs were forced to participate in propaganda films, but they looked like Hell in the films.
In contrast, the officer captured by the Iranians didn't appear to offer any resistance at all. I would like to think that the Naval Officers of my day, including me, would be seen on TV making an apology to the Iranians only after looking like we'd done 15 rounds with Mike Tyson.
Of course the Navy of my day didn't suffer under the command of a spineless narcissist like Barack Hussein Obama and, unlike the modern Navy, our senior leaders weren't boot licking sycophants. So perhaps young men like the so-called leader of this boat detachment can be forgiven for being an embarrassment to the Navy, to his country, and even to his gender. Why should the young men of America man-up and do the right thing when nobody in charge seems to be doing the right thing?
This country desperately needs a leader and we need him pretty soon. Hint: Our leadership void isn't going to be filled by a half-asleep brain surgeon or a Canadian lawyer.
J
Jammer Six
Guest
Maybe he was wrong.
You don't know what happened, you only know what you've read or seen in the news.
You don't know what happened, you only know what you've read or seen in the news.
D. E. Laneer
New member
Most people would be surprised at how little duress it takes to make some people sell out or give up information, I would guess it is
a combination of training and general background.
I took survival training on Whidbey Island in Washington State in the 60's. It was 4 days of catch it and you can eat it and 1 day as
prisoners of war. We all knew the timeline going into the 5 day session. I was shocked at the number of people, that after eating very
little for 4 days, would sell out for something as simple as a boiled egg.
Those people that sold out lost their security clearance and any chance at making a career of the military.
a combination of training and general background.
I took survival training on Whidbey Island in Washington State in the 60's. It was 4 days of catch it and you can eat it and 1 day as
prisoners of war. We all knew the timeline going into the 5 day session. I was shocked at the number of people, that after eating very
little for 4 days, would sell out for something as simple as a boiled egg.
Those people that sold out lost their security clearance and any chance at making a career of the military.
J
JimmyO
Guest
Guys, Lets thank about this. They were in a coastal area that is owned by our enemies. Even a short drift puts you in the wrong waters in that area. We don't know what happened. Nothing is confirmed.
Bur more importantly we have a sworn enemy of the US that captures 10 of soldiers. Not one of our boats go crippled in the enemies waters, but two of them do. Less than 12 hours later the highest ranking officer offers an apology. Less than 12 hours after that the Secretary of State apologizes.Then almost immediately our sworn enemy agrees to just let them go. This is the same country that is on the brink of warfare with Saudi Arabia for the past 2 weeks. You are so naive or have your head so far into war that you don't think this was planned? This was not an Officer at fault, this was a planned intentional cool down. This was a planned peace keeping by the highest levels of the US government.
Our officers have always been been trained to give name rank and serial number. It takes a takes a very powerful high phone call to have that officer to immediately confess, then for our sworn enemy to just say, "sorry you made a mistake, let them go" The only reason that Iran let our guys go, they were given the right phone call from the right person. We have suffered through a very week POTUS for the past 7 years. But don't kid yourself, there is only only one man that could have made that all happen.
So get over yourself when you accuse our troops, and ask yourself who is the guy that could have negotiated our troops release from our sworn enemy in less than 24 hours?
Bur more importantly we have a sworn enemy of the US that captures 10 of soldiers. Not one of our boats go crippled in the enemies waters, but two of them do. Less than 12 hours later the highest ranking officer offers an apology. Less than 12 hours after that the Secretary of State apologizes.Then almost immediately our sworn enemy agrees to just let them go. This is the same country that is on the brink of warfare with Saudi Arabia for the past 2 weeks. You are so naive or have your head so far into war that you don't think this was planned? This was not an Officer at fault, this was a planned intentional cool down. This was a planned peace keeping by the highest levels of the US government.
Our officers have always been been trained to give name rank and serial number. It takes a takes a very powerful high phone call to have that officer to immediately confess, then for our sworn enemy to just say, "sorry you made a mistake, let them go" The only reason that Iran let our guys go, they were given the right phone call from the right person. We have suffered through a very week POTUS for the past 7 years. But don't kid yourself, there is only only one man that could have made that all happen.
So get over yourself when you accuse our troops, and ask yourself who is the guy that could have negotiated our troops release from our sworn enemy in less than 24 hours?
M
Mozella
Guest
True, I was not on Farsi Island. I only saw this Naval officer apologize on a recorded propaganda video which was broadcast on the news. I also saw the moon landing on the news and I remember Bill Clinton looking into the camera and telling a bald-faced lie to the American public (and later to a Federal Grand Jury) when he swore, in no uncertain terms, "I did NOT have sex with that woman".
Perhaps none of these things actually happened and it was all a hoax perpetrated by CNN news. Thanks for encouraging me re-evaluate my version of reality and showing me how wrong I am to expect a man, especially a man serving in the military or as President of the United States, to have a sense of honor and duty.
Gotta' run now. I have a date with a transgender guy/gal to play an energetic game of earth ball where we've been promised get participation trophies.
Dusty Stevens
Hollow Point Dispenser
They said they took a shortcut around the island where they were out of comm range then the boat broke down and they were all under the deck working on it when they came up on em.
J
JimmyO
Guest
There were two boats. So the chance that they both ran out of fuel, or they both suffered total power loss is next to impossible. They were in 45-50' fast attack boats. So if they wanted to escape they probably could have. Thus my reasoning that there is way more than meets the eye.
Jimmy
J
JimmyO
Guest
It was a 45-50 foot long fast attack boat. 10 men can't fit under the deck.
Dusty Stevens
Hollow Point Dispenser
Jimmy they have to give a reason why no shots were fired. You cant just simply surrender then apologize
J
Jammer Six
Guest
Oh, man, gimme the popcorn.
Roger T
Member
So nobody is on watch and they're in hostel waters...That doesn't sound like a smart move.
jackie schmidt
New member
I can't even see why this would morph into a Liberal vs Conservative issue.
You would think that any American would take offense at being humiliated in the eyes of the World by what amounts to a Islamic "Thugocracy".
Bureaucracy
You can expect anything,when you have a Military controlled by Politicians. Bureaucracy changes from Month to Month in this Administration.. A Young Officer in our Military is in a constant state of confusion. His first immature reaction was to apologize for what he saw as a mistake. Who knows,He could have responded on the basis of prior training,or advice from a Superior. Who knows,he could be Gay
. It appears that some of his Superiors are supporting his decision. I suspect that the results of the investigation will reek of Political tampering. This is an election Year.
Glenn
You can expect anything,when you have a Military controlled by Politicians. Bureaucracy changes from Month to Month in this Administration.. A Young Officer in our Military is in a constant state of confusion. His first immature reaction was to apologize for what he saw as a mistake. Who knows,He could have responded on the basis of prior training,or advice from a Superior. Who knows,he could be Gay
. It appears that some of his Superiors are supporting his decision. I suspect that the results of the investigation will reek of Political tampering. This is an election Year.Glenn
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Bill Wynne
Active member
Now Jackie, You and I know that we are better than they are. It is a strong possibility that we will be at war with their government soon enough. They will push our hand one time too many and we will have a real President.
J
Jammer Six
Guest
You can expect anything,when you have a Military controlled by Politicians. Bureaucracy changes from Month to Month in this Administration.. A Young Officer in our Military is in a constant state of confusion. His first immature reaction was to apologize for what he saw as a mistake. Who knows,He could have responded on the basis of prior training,or advice from a Superior. Who knows,he could be Gay
Being gay wouldn't have anything to do with it.
A military controlled by politicians is absolutely essential to our way of life.
You are correct, Our way of life hinges on the Candidates we elect to control the military. Vote wise in the upcoming election.
Excellent Observation Jammer, I'm no expert on Gay's in the Military.
Glenn
J
JimmyO
Guest
Islamic Thugocraxy?
Look, While I am as far from beinga Islamic as possible,(I am an Irish catholic) I also don't believe in racial profiling. Your statement was just blatantly racist. Honestly I am embarrassed by your behavior of blaming them for our military ing up.
What would we do if two Iranian gun boats were caught in our waters? Do you really believe the crews and their boats would be released within 24 hours?
Politicians are obviously involved, the only question is how high up does their involvement go?
BTW - thugocracy - is obviously a redneck made up word word that obviously means "I am a racist, and I don't think I should take any blame if I up)