N
nipper
Guest
this is the exact reason i started shooting centerfire benchrest and loading my own rounds ,i can control what i shoot and not an ammo company.....good day to all....
David Valdina
Member
Folks use different length barrels and that will have an effect on the velocity. And folks will measure the bullet's velocity at different distance from the muzzle, and that will effect the velocities. I have no idea what Eley uses for a test barrel or where the velocity is measured. As to the original question presented, I suspect that tuners and such have no effect on velocity, but I have not tested that myself.
As a postscript to this, for Pete and his Aussie bud, go over to Wallace's forum, take note of the substantial post on ELEY Bob Collins has put up. Bob has been dealing ELEY pretty much from the beginning. Notice the amazing volume of information he posted that is exactly what I told you. Consider this to be pretty accurate.
And Pete, from now on you sit at the kids table with the propellor beany.
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Pete Wass
Well-known member
I went way back and read through this thread. Where we went wrong, I think, is you may have thought I was cronoing the ammo to check the speed of it, which I was not. My meaning was, if I have a box of ammo, that works in my rifle, which has a speed of 1050 marked on it in "Match" then one might assume that a box of "Club" with a speed of 1050 marked on it would likely work as well, in one's rifle.
I would not expect all barrels and rifles to render the same FPS of any ammo. I didn't mean to say that if you thought I did.
I am thinking, after reading an article a friend sent me, that it may be the machine the ammo is made on that may be a better indicator if a lot of ammo might work in one's rifle but others have said that it is a guessing game.
Merry Christmas Tim.
I would not expect all barrels and rifles to render the same FPS of any ammo. I didn't mean to say that if you thought I did.
I am thinking, after reading an article a friend sent me, that it may be the machine the ammo is made on that may be a better indicator if a lot of ammo might work in one's rifle but others have said that it is a guessing game.
Merry Christmas Tim.
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J
jGEE
Guest
There is a difference what was told in 1950 and now 2010... i was born in 1948... i remember a few things from my teens years... either i have gotten smarter or the factory has always lied... my feeling is more truth was told in the earlier years than now. Years past were were told how it really was from the top down... now days with slick marketing tell the consumer what he wants to hear... It's ok to now lie to the factory reps -sure they are telling the truth as they know it.
I chrony SK standard plus... shoots from dead on to maybe 10 fps to seldom 15 fps difference.. then every so often, bam 40 fps under i get a dropper. Just enough to make it unusable in a match.... why would a company get duds in this day and age -what could be so outta whack ever 15 or 20 rounds is so far off, Mistakes are not tolerated in todays manufacturing... so these guys test their ammo and write up a report.. o well s hit happens!!
all this is for -sometimes it is best to use what you actually see than take a representative word.. what somebody says is to be taken with a grain of salt. underlings are lied to everyday in this new economy...
Now does Lapua buy inferior machines, really can that be??> -why not have "one" type ammo machine -produce great ammo that you still make a profit at 4.50 a box but some will pay $15.00 a box... smart marketing would "salt" the inexpensive ammo just enough to make it unusable in a match but perfect ammo for non professional matches...
We can put a man on the moon in the 1960's but can't make usable rimfire ammo in 2010- HUH?...
I chrony SK standard plus... shoots from dead on to maybe 10 fps to seldom 15 fps difference.. then every so often, bam 40 fps under i get a dropper. Just enough to make it unusable in a match.... why would a company get duds in this day and age -what could be so outta whack ever 15 or 20 rounds is so far off, Mistakes are not tolerated in todays manufacturing... so these guys test their ammo and write up a report.. o well s hit happens!!
all this is for -sometimes it is best to use what you actually see than take a representative word.. what somebody says is to be taken with a grain of salt. underlings are lied to everyday in this new economy...
Now does Lapua buy inferior machines, really can that be??> -why not have "one" type ammo machine -produce great ammo that you still make a profit at 4.50 a box but some will pay $15.00 a box... smart marketing would "salt" the inexpensive ammo just enough to make it unusable in a match but perfect ammo for non professional matches...
We can put a man on the moon in the 1960's but can't make usable rimfire ammo in 2010- HUH?...
Pete Wass
Well-known member
Just an opinion Joe but I suspect the priming compound has a lot to do with the consistency of all RF ammo. That is why one is able to find, sometimes, great shooting ammo in less expensive brands and lots. Years ago I found a lot of RWS Target Rifle that shot wonderfully in my 40X with a Lilja on it. It was less than $4.00 per box and shot every bit as good as the Midas I use to use as well. I origionally bought the RWS for practice but used it as back up when I didn't have Midas that worked as well. For some reason RWS culled that lot and sold it as inferior to their Rifle Match; my good fortune. I bought all of it I could get. I still have a couple of bricks of it but it won't work in either of my rifles now. I don't think any of them have mastered the primer mix thing and the reason ammo hasn't advanced a lot in 15 years or more.
Jgee......
Howdy Joe,
You may be in a good position to MAYBE, depending upon the quality of the ammo, verify what Pete just said. Have you ever seen that ammo made by Aguila called Colibri, and Super Colibri? That advertise it as being Eley primed. There is no gunpowder, it is powered only by the primer. Now, obviously, this stuff ain't match ammo. Matter of fact, what I played with a time or two wasn't too accurate for much of anything. It's chief virtue was it was quiet, you could hear the firing pin hit the case. Blackbirds didn't like it when they were too close.
The Colibri is supposed to have a muzzle velocity of 375fps. The Super Colibri is supposed to be 500fps. Again, this stuff ain't match ammo, and the bullet is something like 20 grains, and the load does not shoot accurately past a very short distance. I am going to guess that the velocity will be pretty inconsistant. It may be worthwhile to chronograph this ammo, it may not. But it might yield some info regarding primer consistancy. If the bullet weight is consistant.
If you do chrono it, there might be beneficial info to be found. One word of warning. Make sure the bullet clears the barrel!!!!! The first attempt out of an Annie 1413, it did not clear the barrel, I had to rod it out. I am just glad I didn't shoot another before I cleared the first one.
If you think that velocity test, on cartridges without gunpowder, would be of any use, please consider trying a box. I don't have a chrono, or I would try it myself. Might be worthwhile!
Greg
Howdy Joe,
You may be in a good position to MAYBE, depending upon the quality of the ammo, verify what Pete just said. Have you ever seen that ammo made by Aguila called Colibri, and Super Colibri? That advertise it as being Eley primed. There is no gunpowder, it is powered only by the primer. Now, obviously, this stuff ain't match ammo. Matter of fact, what I played with a time or two wasn't too accurate for much of anything. It's chief virtue was it was quiet, you could hear the firing pin hit the case. Blackbirds didn't like it when they were too close.
The Colibri is supposed to have a muzzle velocity of 375fps. The Super Colibri is supposed to be 500fps. Again, this stuff ain't match ammo, and the bullet is something like 20 grains, and the load does not shoot accurately past a very short distance. I am going to guess that the velocity will be pretty inconsistant. It may be worthwhile to chronograph this ammo, it may not. But it might yield some info regarding primer consistancy. If the bullet weight is consistant.
If you do chrono it, there might be beneficial info to be found. One word of warning. Make sure the bullet clears the barrel!!!!! The first attempt out of an Annie 1413, it did not clear the barrel, I had to rod it out. I am just glad I didn't shoot another before I cleared the first one.
If you think that velocity test, on cartridges without gunpowder, would be of any use, please consider trying a box. I don't have a chrono, or I would try it myself. Might be worthwhile!
Greg
BINGO! You have now made the rest of your .22 shooting life easier by realizing the single most important issue picking ammo.
A
AussiFlyer
Guest
Tim,
Thanks for the advice - it's appreciated
A I said mate.. just trying to learn as much as I can...
I accept it in good grace and with smile on the dial
If nothing else, the forum gives me a laugh and for that - I'm grateful
Cheers froma windy downunder
Cary
Thanks for the advice - it's appreciated
A I said mate.. just trying to learn as much as I can...
I accept it in good grace and with smile on the dial
If nothing else, the forum gives me a laugh and for that - I'm grateful
Cheers froma windy downunder
Cary
A
AussiFlyer
Guest
Guys,
Joe makes a really interesting point and it's reiterates what I was suggesting in the first place in that irrepective of the methodology or testing barrels or indeed anything else - I simply questioned the inability of any modern manufacturer (of anything) - in todays world of high technology, to maintain strict tolerances in their manufacturing process (for whatever reason).
Consider that if for example, I had a rifle headspaced at 0.043" and yours was done at (say) 0.035" - you'd be yelling at the gunsmith 'suggesting' that the tolerances were unacceptable - right ??
I know we can't fix the problem because we sit here and can't identify the issue. We've just got to make the best of it...and that's fine.
And... Pete is also right on the money when he suggests that the machine on which the ammo is made has an impact. Two weeks ago - I was shooting with ammo from the No 6 machine and was glad to see the last of it. This week, I'm using same speed ammo but from the number 5 machine. Interestingly - where before I was getting dropped shots (2 per box) and odd flyers - the no 5 machine made ammo has demonstrated none of these traits and more interesting, seems (to me) to shoot better through the wind but that's just my observation - not fact....
All food for thought !!
Cheers gents.
Cary.
Joe makes a really interesting point and it's reiterates what I was suggesting in the first place in that irrepective of the methodology or testing barrels or indeed anything else - I simply questioned the inability of any modern manufacturer (of anything) - in todays world of high technology, to maintain strict tolerances in their manufacturing process (for whatever reason).
Consider that if for example, I had a rifle headspaced at 0.043" and yours was done at (say) 0.035" - you'd be yelling at the gunsmith 'suggesting' that the tolerances were unacceptable - right ??
I know we can't fix the problem because we sit here and can't identify the issue. We've just got to make the best of it...and that's fine.
And... Pete is also right on the money when he suggests that the machine on which the ammo is made has an impact. Two weeks ago - I was shooting with ammo from the No 6 machine and was glad to see the last of it. This week, I'm using same speed ammo but from the number 5 machine. Interestingly - where before I was getting dropped shots (2 per box) and odd flyers - the no 5 machine made ammo has demonstrated none of these traits and more interesting, seems (to me) to shoot better through the wind but that's just my observation - not fact....
All food for thought !!
Cheers gents.
Cary.
J
jGEE
Guest
Howdy Joe,
You may be in a good position to MAYBE, depending upon the quality of the ammo, verify what Pete just said. Have you ever seen that ammo made by Aguila called Colibri, and Super Colibri? That advertise it as being Eley primed. There is no gunpowder, it is powered only by the primer. Now, obviously, this stuff ain't match ammo. Matter of fact, what I played with a time or two wasn't too accurate for much of anything. It's chief virtue was it was quiet, you could hear the firing pin hit the case. Blackbirds didn't like it when they were too close.
The Colibri is supposed to have a muzzle velocity of 375fps. The Super Colibri is supposed to be 500fps. Again, this stuff ain't match ammo, and the bullet is something like 20 grains, and the load does not shoot accurately past a very short distance. I am going to guess that the velocity will be pretty inconsistant. It may be worthwhile to chronograph this ammo, it may not. But it might yield some info regarding primer consistancy. If the bullet weight is consistant.
If you do chrono it, there might be beneficial info to be found. One word of warning. Make sure the bullet clears the barrel!!!!! The first attempt out of an Annie 1413, it did not clear the barrel, I had to rod it out. I am just glad I didn't shoot another before I cleared the first one.
If you think that velocity test, on cartridges without gunpowder, would be of any use, please consider trying a box. I don't have a chrono, or I would try it myself. Might be worthwhile!
Greg
Greg that is a great idea..... If it is the same primer eley uses hasn't that experiment been done many times over by using a chrony on Eley red box.. some say the best ammo in the world?
But if i did i would use my 40X to test with!! I'll include a pic of me receiving my 40X!! oh by the way the chickens are 3 days old.. 11 of them!! i took the pic this morning... and by the way the eggs went thru 2 nites of below freezing weather about a week ago and she was outside somewhere!! take care... joe
John Kielly
Shari's fan club
Might just turn out being a test of the quality of a gun's ignition system.
That's fine, as was stated not mad you just gotta realize asking the question until you get an answer you like does not, in the long run, help. As you've already seen Bob weighed in on another planet with some additional color but good, helpful stuff.
Also while you did'nt ask, but I'll offer, since I saw elsewhere your comment about tuner lot adjustment.....don't. If you need adjustments I'd wager it was not tuned to begin with, once set leave it alone.
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Joe....
Howdy Joe,
Hope you had a great Christmas! Did you consider trying this test? I don't know how scientific it would be, as the quality of the ammo certainly isn't match grade. John Kielly is probably correct that it might just be a test of the rifle's ignition system. That ammo is made by Aguila in Mexico. They just use Eley's priming system. They also make Eley Sport ammo, and I have not heard much that was good about it. I don't know how consistant the amount of priming compound in the cases would be. That would obviously kill the test.......
If you shoot that Super Colibri, or the regular Colibri, make absolutely CERTAIN it clears the barrel. The first round I tried didn't make it out of the barrel of my 1413, had to rod it out.
Congrats on getting another 40x, hope it does well! I showed my little girl your chicken pics a bit ago and told her you were the one with the ducks back in the summer. She thought they were cuter than the ducks. Her motivation might be a little suspect though. She told me to tell you she is eating chicken right now (she really is) and it is mighty good!
'Zat a haircut in that pic?
Greg
Greg that is a great idea..... If it is the same primer eley uses hasn't that experiment been done many times over by using a chrony on Eley red box.. some say the best ammo in the world?
But if i did i would use my 40X to test with!! I'll include a pic of me receiving my 40X!! oh by the way the chickens are 3 days old.. 11 of them!! i took the pic this morning... and by the way the eggs went thru 2 nites of below freezing weather about a week ago and she was outside somewhere!! take care... joe
Howdy Joe,
Hope you had a great Christmas! Did you consider trying this test? I don't know how scientific it would be, as the quality of the ammo certainly isn't match grade. John Kielly is probably correct that it might just be a test of the rifle's ignition system. That ammo is made by Aguila in Mexico. They just use Eley's priming system. They also make Eley Sport ammo, and I have not heard much that was good about it. I don't know how consistant the amount of priming compound in the cases would be. That would obviously kill the test.......
If you shoot that Super Colibri, or the regular Colibri, make absolutely CERTAIN it clears the barrel. The first round I tried didn't make it out of the barrel of my 1413, had to rod it out.
Congrats on getting another 40x, hope it does well! I showed my little girl your chicken pics a bit ago and told her you were the one with the ducks back in the summer. She thought they were cuter than the ducks. Her motivation might be a little suspect though. She told me to tell you she is eating chicken right now (she really is) and it is mighty good!
'Zat a haircut in that pic?
Greg