Ammo Testing Velocity

Pete,

Thanks for the response. I’m always curious about how other shooters determine which ammo shoots best and how they tune rifles.

As regards “better and easier” methods....the number of better methods is more than I could count, but unfortunately, none of them are easier. These two terms are almost always mutually exclusive.

Everybody has to decide on an individual basis how much time and expense they’re willing to sacrifice if they want to improve their testing. If they’re comfortable with what they’re currently doing and thinks it works, they shouldn’t change anything.

Thanks,
Landy
 
I will agree that the, "modern manufacturing methods and Eley's much advertised factory processes," may leave shooters with less performance than we demand of the ammo. The reality of the situation sadly enough is that we are at the mercy of the manufacturers. There is nothing we can do about Eley's manufacturing process but if we want to shoot, we have to buy ammo, so there is no use fretting over it. We have to make the best of the situation, regardless. I guess ya'll could try to boycott Eley, but good luck with that lol

I still believe, however, that its somewhat of an unrealistic expectation to believe that every rifle is going to shoot the ammo at the same speed, especially the, "advertised speed." There are just too many variables out there, to expect this. If you go to the Eley website, it actually says that the advertised speed is, "the mean velocity over 4 barrels." Its a statistical measure of velocity, NOT an exact measure. Has anyone ever tried taking the mean velocity of a lot of ammo across 4 different barrels to see if this was closer to the number advertised on the side of the boxes?

At the end of the day, however, I don't see that the advertised velocity matters. Test your ammo and find one that shoots. That's all we can do.

Brian
 
HuskerP7M8 said:
Pete,

Thanks for the response. I’m always curious about how other shooters determine which ammo shoots best and how they tune rifles.

As regards “better and easier” methods....the number of better methods is more than I could count, but unfortunately, none of them are easier. These two terms are almost always mutually exclusive.

Everybody has to decide on an individual basis how much time and expense they’re willing to sacrifice if they want to improve their testing. If they’re comfortable with what they’re currently doing and thinks it works, they shouldn’t change anything.

Thanks,
Landy
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Well, OK, lets focus on better methods. As I said, I'm willing to learn and I do change my mind sometimes. Regarding Expense; that IS an issue when using up pricey ammo, let alone the limited amount of ammo that works well enough to be competative.
 
Pete Wass said:
Well, OK, lets focus on better methods. As I said, I'm willing to learn and I do change my mind sometimes. Regarding Expense; that IS an issue when using up pricey ammo, let alone the limited amount of ammo that works well enough to be competative.
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Pete
I don’t think there is an easy answer to finding good ammo. You just test lot after lot until you find one that will win matches. I worked out it was cheaper to buy a plane ticket and just go to ammo factory and test, if you buy a few years worth of ammo it works out cheaper and that’s what I did this year. How did it workout?? I’m laughing!!!

Peter
 
Peter Armstrong said:
Pete
I don’t think there is an easy answer to finding good ammo. You just test lot after lot until you find one that will win matches. I worked out it was cheaper to buy a plane ticket and just go to ammo factory and test, if you buy a few years worth of ammo it works out cheaper and that’s what I did this year. How did it workout?? I’m laughing!!!

Peter
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Is it a problem getting one's rifles into and out of England? This do make sense :cool:
 
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Pete Wass said:
Well, OK, lets focus on better methods. As I said, I'm willing to learn and I do change my mind sometimes. Regarding Expense; that IS an issue when using up pricey ammo, let alone the limited amount of ammo that works well enough to be competative.
Click to expand...

Pete,

I appreciate that you’re interested, but I’ve been down this road before and it seems the majority of BR shooters are only interested in the thoughts of those who are at the top of competitive BR or have a reputation. I’ve shot a couple of matches so I could meet a few of you guys but I don’t have the competitive fire I once had. All I do is test (even at the matches I’ve attended) because it’s my obsession and I’m passionate about it.

With very rare exception, I and almost everyone else who dare suggest scientific analysis and methodology are proven methods of quantifying accuracy....end up being beaten to a bloody pulp on most forums.

Since I’ve still got wounds that haven’t scabbed over yet, I’m not gunna open up any new ones. LOL

Landy
 
Pete Wass said:
Is it a problem getting one's rifles into and out of England? This do make sense :cool:
Click to expand...

Pete
In my case I've won a lot of rimfire BR matches and none of them with Eley so I don't know about England we went to Germany where the good ammo is and the paperwork part was real easy. Smallbore shooters go to Eley all the time so I couldn't see it being a problem either. If you want to go to Eley just ask them what paperwork you need and I’m sure they’ll help you out. But at RWS and Lapua you can test all levels of ammo but at Eley you can only test tenex.

Peter
 
Thanks peter,

Considering I can't afford a lifetime's supply of Tenex Guess I'll have to re-consider where I go.

Thanks,

Pete
 
AussiFlyer said:
Tim,

I appreciate the comments but the gist of what I'm suggesting is that there is a substantial (and to me, unacceptable) difference between Eley's advertised performance (in fps) and what is delivered and this worries me, given today's modern manufacturing methods and their much advertised factory processes. Let me be clear here - I'm an Eley Match user and remain a fan. That said - and again, quoting Eley, their ammo is graded following their many, many inspection processes and from what I can see - (especially when downunder - we're paying $24 a box) I would expect their grading system to put the lower grade ammo into Team or Club by example - not charge us a premium for ammo that fails the test of consistency and as Pete rightly suggests - is in itself the source of much conjecture due to the very nature of the variance they so proudly (it seems) promote.

I doubt that Bob Collins will answer my original question and if he does, will no doubt push the Eley 'buggy' and while I have nothing but respect for Bob - the simple fact remains - and it's just my humble opinion - this level of manufacturing inconsistency is in todays world - unacceptable and I talk from experience as a qualified engineer and process consultant with A LOT of experience in repetative manufacturing.

This then brings us right back to Brian's original comment - if we saw ANY reasonable consistency in the production of ammo - then discussions such as spread and deviation would all come back to the trigger puller. Wouldn't that be nice - we could blame ourseleves for a change insead of seeking every excuse (for our poor performance) every devised.

And hey - happy to admit - my wife kicked my derrriere at the range on the weekend - the jokes are still coming...

Enjoy your weekend guys

Cheers

Cary
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Where did you get the general idea this stuff's speed should translate to your barrel and that it's consistancy would be predicated on that misconception? Neither is true, neither has a rats red behind to do with the quality. Don't believe me, take three barrels one .216", one .217", one .218" in bore diameter and shoot ammo from a single box over a chronograph. You're in for a surprise. Do you have any concept of how much bore varience there is in .22 barrels? You want 1055fps out of your barrel, test it just like the rest of the known galaxy does.
 
Just a question from a non BR shooter... what's the story on Eley Team ammo?? It's almost the same price as Eley black box, and with the same bullet?? Does anyone use this ammo in competition?
Thanks
MC
 
when we went to he nationals this year a new load of eley had arrived a few days before, dan brought it with him and it was 95% team i tried test lots which was very diffic ult to test because of 30 mph winds i did find a lot that shot good and have won a match with it i think everyone their would of liked to test more but it was almost impossible
 
Melvin Calliham said:
Just a question from a non BR shooter... what's the story on Eley Team ammo?? It's almost the same price as Eley black box, and with the same bullet?? Does anyone use this ammo in competition?
Thanks
MC
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Darrel Barnes has been shooting it. It certainly works well for him.
 
Tim,

What exactly are you upset about? Are you a major stockholder in Eley or is it just a Ford VS Chevy thing? :)
 
Three 2500's shot at our Dietzville Range, were shot with Center X. One other might have been with Eley, but I won't bet on it.
 
Thanks, Bob
I may have to give it a try in my silhoette handguns. I use Eley Black box right now. The Team is only about $1.00 per box cheaper, but every little bit helps!!
MC
 
Tim,

Mate... Not sure if you know many Aussies or have ever 'dealt' with us but you'll find that we're an easy going mob. We're open to new ideas, people and are a little more accepting of how things are here. You, my friend, are beginning to sound like a typical agro New Yorker - always looking for a fight.

I posed a question of the forum - seeking advice and opinions - not to be lorded over and 'told off' by you.

Funnily enough - amd strange as it may seem to you - I do understand that different rifles, barrels, barrel length and day conditions all go to contribute to performance BUT, the question that was posed is essentially - that where we are reliant on one part of the process - and the one over which we have no control - and, for what we pay - we should expect a bit better consistency - that's ALL I was suggesting.

As to testing - good friends of mine within this forum will vouch (through many personal communications) that I have in fact, conducted very specific testing regime (indoors) and have documented my results with not just one but difffeent rifles, tuners and ammo etc. With an engineering background, my approach and methodology were documented and results were able to be replicated, the results of which I'm happy to share.

Mate... the best advice I can give you - is "lighten up"... it's a sport and we're not shooting for farms !!

Cheers

Cary
 
AussiFlyer said:
Tim,

Mate... Not sure if you know many Aussies or have ever 'dealt' with us but you'll find that we're an easy going mob. We're open to new ideas, people and are a little more accepting of how things are here. You, my friend, are beginning to sound like a typical agro New Yorker - always looking for a fight.

I posed a question of the forum - seeking advice and opinions - not to be lorded over and 'told off' by you.

Funnily enough - amd strange as it may seem to you - I do understand that different rifles, barrels, barrel length and day conditions all go to contribute to performance BUT, the question that was posed is essentially - that where we are reliant on one part of the process - and the one over which we have no control - and, for what we pay - we should expect a bit better consistency - that's ALL I was suggesting.

As to testing - good friends of mine within this forum will vouch (through many personal communications) that I have in fact, conducted very specific testing regime (indoors) and have documented my results with not just one but difffeent rifles, tuners and ammo etc. With an engineering background, my approach and methodology were documented and results were able to be replicated, the results of which I'm happy to share.

Mate... the best advice I can give you - is "lighten up"... it's a sport and we're not shooting for farms !!

Cheers

Cary
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Let me try this a different way. All those speeds on the box, they don't have broken powder measures, it's not because they're cluless, They do it on purpose. You posted aquestion on the forum and refuse to accept the answer. Get a copy of the globally published article all about how ELEY makes EPS ammo, it spells out exactly what you've been told ....honest. and wtf is an agro NEW Yorker???
 
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Pete

Pete Wass said:
Tim,

What exactly are you upset about? Are you a major stockholder in Eley or is it just a Ford VS Chevy thing? :)
Click to expand...

I hesitate to jump in this, then again that has never stopped me before. I don't think Tim is upset, he has answered the question about 3 times and as best as I can tell a couple of people don't like the answer. What he has said is the truth. Most of us that have shot rimfire for many years realize that testing the ammo is something we accept. The ammo eley is making is the best ammo rimfire benchrest shooters have ever had. There is NO problem with the quality, and all of it works good in someones rifle. The nature of rimfire makes it impossible to make one run of ammo and it would shoot in all rifles. It ain't ever going to happen.
 
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