.338br

[Al Nyhus]

The 30 had a 0.065 gain over the 6mm so why not go that step again, more or less.Bryce

Bryce, the 'gain' is only .0325.

The development of a fat bullet score rifle isn't about better accuracy, it is simply about holding the accuracy to the level needed and knocking out more paper. Bryce

Not exactly. The only way to exploit the advantages of a larger bullet diameter in Score shooting is to be able to operate at similar accuracy levels as the smaller calibers. When you do this, the gap gets pretty wide in a hurry in favor of the big bullets.

Accuracy is still everything. Makes no difference if it's Group or Score.

Good shootin'. -Al

 

[BJS6]

Al,

The size was meant in relative terms, 6 to 308 vs 308 to 338, of course the effective benefit is only on the side that matters.

Sorry, I meant that the accuracy goal was to be as good as the PPC and 30BR but knock out a bigger hole, didn't mean to infer that less accuracy was acceptable if the hole was big enough.

If accuracy was the only thing that mattered why did so many jump on the 30 cal band wagon ?? For a play I shot a score target with my Cooper 17AH, the little bullet makes it a test !!!

 

[Al Nyhus]

Al, If accuracy was the only thing that mattered why did so many jump on the 30 cal band wagon ??

Pretty simple: a good 30BR is as accurate as a good 6PPC. Since the rules of Score shooting mandate 'best edge' scoring, the .0325 scoring advantage of the .30 cal bullet becomes an advantage.

For example, against a well tuned 6PPC that shoots solid .200's, a 30BR that's stuck in the .250-.260 range won't put the pancakes on the table. Lacking identical accuracy to it's 6PPC counterpart, the 30BR simply can't make up for this with bullet diameter alone.

And 'ya still have to steer 'em...no matter what the bullet diameter is. -Al

 

[R. G. Robinett]

There was no "Protesting" of best edge scoring by the 224 and sub caliber nuts . . .

Prior to Jim Goody's run with his thirty Jaguar VfS rig (a THREE PEAT@ IBS Score Shooter of the Year and a Y2K National Championship !) and the simultaneous acceptance of the contemporary 30 BR, people weren't concerned with the "best edge" advantage of the 6MM bullet diameter over lesser calibers - the RULES were NOT changed to accommodate the thirty caliber "advantage" - they (the rules) were merely EXPLOITED! AND, we exploited them via PRECISION, not VooDoo!

Thus, why should it be acceptable to "save" the 6MM as opposed to the .224 . .or, even a .177? Prior to the advent of the thirty caliber domination, because of "best edge", almost NOBODY shot a .224 - "ADVANTAGE 6MM" was quite acceptable!

As Al aptly stated, sans [at least] equal precision, there is NO advantage to the larger bullet diameter . . . but there IS a penalty for shooting the [necessarily] heavier thirty caliber bullets - it's called RECOIL! An often heard lament: "If I'd been shooting a thirty, I'd have gotten THAT X!" Well, assuming that, despite the increased reciol, one had executed an equally good shot - which some individuals simply cannot manage. The cliche "there is no free lunch" , aptly applies! And so it would be with .338 caliber bullets - it would be difficult to make a BR quality bullet of much less than 135 grains . . . and THAT equals MORE recoil; a penalty which I hope to avoid!

But, if anyone has the balls to invest in dies, AND the "pull" to get a supply of suitable jackets drawn, well, "bring it on"! I cannot find any phrasing in either the IBS or, NBRSA rule books, which limits the development of PRECISION to a specific caliber . . . perhaps, in the spirit of "original intent" , the SPORTER CLASS should be changed to .338 caliber! RG

 

[JJ-IA]

<snip>
Thus, why should it be acceptable to "save" the 6MM as opposed to the .224 . .or, even a .177? Prior to the advent of the thirty caliber domination, because of "best edge", almost NOBODY shot a .224 - "ADVANTAGE 6MM" was quite acceptable!

</snip>

VFS isn’t my cup of tea but I do see the fun and challenge.
But if the VFS rules weren’t defective from the start, all calibers would be competing on an even playing field and nothing would need to be “saved”.
The air rifle forum guys figured this out after the first match and fixed the problem by using a scoring plug that gives all calibers a fair and equal chance.

I don’t think anyone’s upset because the 30’s (and bigger in the future) are a best-fit for the defective VFS rules. They’re upset because 99+% of “real-life” varmint calibers (the calibers almost always used for varmint hunting) are put at a -real- disadvantage because of the lack of caliber restrictions and best edge rules.
I’ve said this before. If the NHRA lined up drag cars with their rear wheels on the starting line, and tripped the finish line lights with the front wheels. You’d be a fool to bring a short wheel base car to a drag race regardless of how pleasant it is to drive, and how quick it is.

 

[cut rifled]

We just built a .338 BR for a guy as a .338 whisper project we made a 6 twist .338 barrel for him 16.5" long threaded for a suppressor to shoot the 300gr. SMK's out of it and it is benchrest accurate at 100yds. I was going to try it with the 180gr ballistic tips but I don't have the time if anyone wants to build one I have the reamer for it and I will donate the barrel for it whatever twist you want I am interested to see how it will perform on a bench gun.

Paul Tolvstad
Rock Creek Barrels

 

[R. G. Robinett]

But, Jj . . .

I don’t think anyone’s upset because the 30’s (and bigger in the future) are a best-fit for the defective VFS rules. They’re upset because 99+% of “real-life” varmint calibers (the calibers almost always used for varmint hunting) are put at a -real- disadvantage because of the lack of caliber restrictions and best edge rules.

Isn't THIS what I said [above] regarding the 224 and smaller calibers - why weren't the rules "defective" prior to the arrival of the 30 BR rigs? Weren't 17 velociratprors and .22 wingdings "REAL-LIFE" varmint cartridges . . . who was advocating rule changes and/or class restrictions to protect them? Where was the carping about BIG holes?
The PPC didn't originate in the Varmint fields - it was specifically designed for BR competition: by your reasoning, it and it's derrivatives wouldn't measure -up either! So, precedent was already established. We've moved a LONG way from the varmint fields: BR nomenclature is, at best, archaic - again, for evidence, I offer the SPORTER Class rifle! RG

 

[alinwa]

JUST to set the record straight

http://www.benchrest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9161&highlight=hood+cookie+cutter


al

 

[jackie schmidt]

Randy

You are so right. The name "Varmint" appears in three classes, (LV, HV, and Varmint for Score), but we all know it has nothing to do with what the rest of the World calls a "Varmint Rifle'. It is just a monikor that has been handed down, it is not supposed to "represent" anything.
"Benchrest for Score" would be a more fitting name. That would designate a Rifle that existed "for accuracy's sake", and nothing else. That is what Benchrest is about.......jackie

 

[JJ-IA]

Isn't THIS what I said [above] regarding the 224 and smaller calibers - why weren't the rules "defective" prior to the arrival of the 30 BR rigs? Weren't 17 velociratprors and .22 wingdings "REAL-LIFE" varmint cartridges . . . who was advocating rule changes and/or class restrictions to protect them? Where was the carping about BIG holes?
The PPC didn't originate in the Varmint fields - it was specifically designed for BR competition: by your reasoning, it and it's derrivatives wouldn't measure -up either! So, precedent was already established. We've moved a LONG way from the varmint fields: BR nomenclature is, at best, archaic - again, for evidence, I offer the SPORTER Class rifle! RG

You did Randy and I agree, that’s why I said “defective from the start” in my post.

I told my smith “that’s just silly” and needs to be fixed back in ‘95 when the 6 was recommended over the 22ppc for my first BR rig because of (among other things) the VFS rule.
My opinion has been consistent from the start even though my only interest is in group.
Jim

 

[JJ-IA]

You are so right. The name "Varmint" appears in three classes, (LV, HV, and Varmint for Score), but we all know it has nothing to do with what the rest of the World calls a "Varmint Rifle'. It is just a monikor that has been handed down, it is not supposed to "represent" anything.
"Benchrest for Score" would be a more fitting name. That would designate a Rifle that existed "for accuracy's sake", and nothing else. That is what Benchrest is about.......jackie

Changing the name to “Benchrest for Score” is a good idea and would be the most logical option so the VFS rules could remain the as they are.
But I do believe “varmint” was very much the intent in group at least, and the tradition (chasing traditional BR goals with a killer varmint rifle) drew me to the competitions more than anything else.

 

[Pete Wass]

I think it came to be because

The rifles, at least the VFS rifles are idenical to Light and Heavy Group rifles. The Hunter Bench Rest is a different animal but I think the origion of Score shooting. I am in favor of a name change here unless the members wants to create a real Varmint Rifle class. It is up to the Members to make changes.