30BR vs 6ppc stiring the pot...

It's interesting that there's not a lot of talk (either score or group) about distances beyond 100 yards.

For the past several years It's been my opinion that 100 yard shooting has reached the point where it's an insult to the fine rifles and cartridges that we use. It was always said that 200 yards seperates the boys from the men and that gets truer and truer every day. If matches were held at 200 and 300 yards you'd be hearing shooters singing a different song. There'd be more talk about how to improve your shooting and less about making the targets smaller or the diameter of the bullet.

If the only goal is to see who can shoot the tiniest dot, why not move the tagets to 50 yards?

JMHO

Ray
 
Agg

I'm a nobody and will not even dispute the fact, but in four years of shooting VFS with limited success, if you bring a .30 BR to the game not capable of shooting a flat .200 or less you are not in the hunt for wood, this is not a thread ending post just my $.02


Danny Hensley
 
The example

people give to discredit the accuracy of the 30 BR, the both sides of the dot has nothing to do with grouping. If everybody shot at one target with one dot and the rifle returned to battery in the same place one would see some danged small groups and some danged small aggs I predict. This whole agg arguement is senseless, IMHO. There are plenty of people who can handle the recoil of the 30 BR and who are capable of steering them, the score game is not shooting small holes and not agging, it is aimed at perfection; 250-25 dots touched or as is the case now Wiped Out. Shoot 25 wipeouts and then measure that group. I think there have been 20 shot to date.

But this is a stupid arguement anyway becasue as I have always heard " you can't prove a negative".
 
Pete Wass said:
... the score game is not shooting small holes and not agging, it is aimed at perfection; 250-25 dots touched or as is the case now Wiped Out. Shoot 25 wipeouts and then measure that group. I think there have been 20 shot to date.
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Group shooting is aimed at perfection, too -- an agg of 0.0000. At 100yd a 30BR can shoot 25 wipeouts with an agg as big as 0.2455 or so (if I'm doing the arithmetic right), which isn't going to win many 100yd group shoots. Of course, most 25-wipeout aggs would be smaller than that, but score shooting "perfection" isn't as demanding as group shooting "perfection," no matter how you add it up.

Obviously, to win at either score shooting or group shooting takes a fine rifle and a fine rifleman, but that fact that perfection HAS been attained in score shooting, but not in group shooting, tells you something important about the two games.

Toby Bradshaw
baywingdb@comcast.net
 
Pete Wass said:
.....it is aimed at perfection; 250-25 dots touched or as is the case now Wiped Out. Shoot 25 wipeouts and then measure that group. I think there have been 20 shot to date.
Click to expand...

The record holders are:
LV 100 yds. 5 250-25X-18WO B. Llewellyn 8/10/08
HV 100 yds. 5 250-25X-21WO Al Weaver 5/14/06

No 25 wipeout targets shot yet in registered competition.
 
But it already has proven Capability

tobybradshaw said:
Group shooting is aimed at perfection, too -- an agg of 0.0000. At 100yd a 30BR can shoot 25 wipeouts with an agg as big as 0.2455 or so (if I'm doing the arithmetic right), which isn't going to win many 100yd group shoots. Of course, most 25-wipeout aggs would be smaller than that, but score shooting "perfection" isn't as demanding as group shooting "perfection," no matter how you add it up./QUOTE]

See this post from last year ! http://benchrest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=51893&highlight=30BR

In the right hands it can shoot as well as a 6PPC.....

And that .2455 agg from what I saw, looking at the IBS group wining aggs, would be very competive.
Click to expand...
 
Jerry, I'm not taking sides in the 6PPC-30BR (great taste - less filling) argument. Never having shot a 30BR I can't have an informed opinion on that issue.

All I'm saying is that a perfect score in score shooting requires less absolute accuracy than a perfect agg in group shooting, and the absolute difference in "perfection" is the bullet diameter minus the diameter of the X-dot.

Apparently perfection has eluded both score shooters and group shooters in registered competition, so far. :)

To say that score shooting isn't about agging capability is wrong. It isn't only about agging capability, though, whereas group shooting is only about agging capability.

In group shooting I will admit to having chased an errant first record shot to preserve an agg, a luxury that score shooters don't have. However, I suspect that good group shooters (of which I am not one) rarely are forced to chase shots. Maybe some of those skilled group shooters will share with us the frequency of shot-chasing in their competitions.

Toby Bradshaw
baywingdb@comcast.net
 
Point blank shooters have it made. At Long Range BR we shoot both group and score, at the same time, and we do it at distances 6 to 10 times further, without sighters.:eek: We don't sit around talking about making the X-ring smaller or shooting a bigger diameter bullet.;)

Ray
 
Cheechako said:
Point blank shooters have it made. At Long Range BR we shoot both group and score, at the same time, and we do it at distances 6 to 10 times further, without sighters.:eek: We don't sit around talking about making the X-ring smaller or shooting a bigger diameter bullet.;)

Ray
Click to expand...



But Ray, I like to shoot. I know in point blank I get to shoot at least 30 rounds (usually closer to 60).... even with my marksman skills.
I wouldn't take it too kindly to drive several hours and because I'm a mediocre shot be sent home after only 10 shots or whatever in the first round.
 
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