30BR vertical
- Thread starter skeetlee
- Start date
A
abintx
Guest
Pete ...
Here is what Bart Sauter has to say about one of his bullets called the Wedge:
"A large, tapered bullet, which measures .2439 on the pressure ring and starts large on the body at .2438 and quickly tapers off. It is a double radius bullet which starts as a 9 ogive in the back and then blends into a 6.5 in the front. It is a short bearing surface bullet."
The bearing surface is the area in front of the bullet's base. [The picture below shows bullets on the left that have more bearing surface than those on the right]
Below is a picture I got from one of Speedy's articles that should help with visualization. Art
I don't know what that means, Double Radius.
Here is what Bart Sauter has to say about one of his bullets called the Wedge:
"A large, tapered bullet, which measures .2439 on the pressure ring and starts large on the body at .2438 and quickly tapers off. It is a double radius bullet which starts as a 9 ogive in the back and then blends into a 6.5 in the front. It is a short bearing surface bullet."
The bearing surface is the area in front of the bullet's base. [The picture below shows bullets on the left that have more bearing surface than those on the right]
Below is a picture I got from one of Speedy's articles that should help with visualization. Art
Attachments
F
Fla mac
Guest
All,
I have a new barrel on my Stolle Teddy HV and I need to ladder it to find were it shoots the best. I have been shooting (free recoil) it with 33.5gr. and 118 gr. bullet. The OAL is about .030” into the lands. I ‘m not pleased with the performance that I’m getting so I’m starting over for scratch. I have the OAL at just touching the lands, now I’m loading in .3 gr. steps from 33.5 to 34.7. I set my scope to shot 3” to the right of aim point and change the target after each group. I have the same aim point with all groups shot. Will .010” change in OAL be to much in each steps after the first set of firings (just touching).
john
Mims, Fl
I have a new barrel on my Stolle Teddy HV and I need to ladder it to find were it shoots the best. I have been shooting (free recoil) it with 33.5gr. and 118 gr. bullet. The OAL is about .030” into the lands. I ‘m not pleased with the performance that I’m getting so I’m starting over for scratch. I have the OAL at just touching the lands, now I’m loading in .3 gr. steps from 33.5 to 34.7. I set my scope to shot 3” to the right of aim point and change the target after each group. I have the same aim point with all groups shot. Will .010” change in OAL be to much in each steps after the first set of firings (just touching).
john
Mims, Fl
FB
I didnt mean to offend you or any one else here sir. Just a little friendly conversation, thats all. I go shoot as much as i can, but i am raising a young family, and i have a full time job, thank god!! I like to talk and read with these fine folks here, so i thought i would share a little about my experience. Lee
I didnt mean to offend you or any one else here sir. Just a little friendly conversation, thats all. I go shoot as much as i can, but i am raising a young family, and i have a full time job, thank god!! I like to talk and read with these fine folks here, so i thought i would share a little about my experience. Lee
jackie schmidt
New member
Skeet, Francis gets cranky because it is probably still snowing up where he lives.
T
TestPilot
Guest
What's your barrel length?
F
Fla mac
Guest
TestPilot
22"
john
22"
john
E
eww1350
Guest
Skeet...hopefully your gunsmith made a seating depth gage from a piece of your barrel...if yes...then measure a sized case (no bullet)...then seat a bullet about .030" long (on a loaded case)...shoot a 5 shot group...(powder charge of 33.5 grns H4198)...if you have vertical adjust the seater to .025" jam...again same powder charge...continue reducing the jam by .005" until you can see improvement in the amount of vertical...try to avoid big jumps of .010-.020" in seating depth adjustments...powder charge is less of an influence than seating depth...and with temperatures in the 80-90 degrees range the 33.5 grn load will give you enough velocity to determine where the vertical is coming from...
once you have reduced the vertical to the lowest observed...then check your front bag...soft is OK...hard as nails is BAD...rear bag...hard as nails OK...soft NOT good..
let me know if this helps...it is how I got rid of the vertical problem in my 30BR...
Eddie in Texas
once you have reduced the vertical to the lowest observed...then check your front bag...soft is OK...hard as nails is BAD...rear bag...hard as nails OK...soft NOT good..
let me know if this helps...it is how I got rid of the vertical problem in my 30BR...
Eddie in Texas
Just a little update on my 30br. All seems to be getting better. I slid the stock further into the front rest about 2" and softened up the front bag side squeeze. I didnt get to shoot very many groups today but the few i did shoot didnt have any vertical. I am sure that this barrel likes the bullets about 30 off full jam. I did have some lateral movement in the groups today but the winds were though so i cant say for sure if that was the load or the wind. I thought my wind calls were good however. So im getting closer. I still need to find the powder charge but like i said above i am more than confident my seating depth is going to fall some were between 20- 35 off full jam.
If the lateral movement wasnt wind today, wouldnt that indicate to much or possible to little powder? thanks Lee
If the lateral movement wasnt wind today, wouldnt that indicate to much or possible to little powder? thanks Lee
Pete Wass
Well-known member
It indicates your barrel is spitting the bullets out sideways in it's vibration. Try going up with .002g of powder for three sets of loads and if that doesn't work, go back to your brginning load and load three sets with .002g less of powder to see if you can find the round hole you are looking for.
Perhaps I should have said the bullets are exiting instead of spitting them out; all amounts to the same thing though. WEIGH YOUR CHARGES.
Perhaps I should have said the bullets are exiting instead of spitting them out; all amounts to the same thing though. WEIGH YOUR CHARGES.
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jackie schmidt
New member
Pete, I was all ate up on weighing charges last Winter, but just said to heck with it as it got to be such a hassle.
I have had my best year in the last three this year, and have not weighed a charge in a match yet. I just went back to the same technique that I used for years while throwing charges.
I know this goes against the usual of removing every variable, it's got me stumpted as well.
A great barrel and some great bullets solves a lot of these problems. On my 6PPC Sporter, I have chambered 4 barrels up in the past month, and consider one worthy to take to a Region Level Match. I am fortunate to have two outstanding 30 caliber barrels for my 30BR HV.......jackie
I have had my best year in the last three this year, and have not weighed a charge in a match yet. I just went back to the same technique that I used for years while throwing charges.
I know this goes against the usual of removing every variable, it's got me stumpted as well.
A great barrel and some great bullets solves a lot of these problems. On my 6PPC Sporter, I have chambered 4 barrels up in the past month, and consider one worthy to take to a Region Level Match. I am fortunate to have two outstanding 30 caliber barrels for my 30BR HV.......jackie
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Pete Wass
Well-known member
It's the barrel Jackie. I have a note book in which I record by drawing in what the groups look like when I am testing. Time after time after time and I can show you or anyone else who wants to look; with most rifles and barrels as little as.002g of powder will open up the group and as little as .003 of seating depth,; be happy to show to you any time.
I have had some barrels over 11 years of shooting that weren't as fussy but they are rare birds. This is why I meticulously weigh and check seating depths, I don't have one of those barrels that will digest anything right now and I suspect most folks who aren't easily able to get a rifle to shoot don't have one either. The fussy ones can be made to shoot but they demand very close attention to their digeestive system; from what testing and shooting I have done, anyway.
Now, don't be shooting that barrel a lot just because it shoots so darn good !
I have had some barrels over 11 years of shooting that weren't as fussy but they are rare birds. This is why I meticulously weigh and check seating depths, I don't have one of those barrels that will digest anything right now and I suspect most folks who aren't easily able to get a rifle to shoot don't have one either. The fussy ones can be made to shoot but they demand very close attention to their digeestive system; from what testing and shooting I have done, anyway.
Now, don't be shooting that barrel a lot just because it shoots so darn good !
Lots of fun
This is my second 30br barrel. The first was a bartlein 17 twist that shoot outstandingly well with just about anything i put down it. This one is a bit different but i do believe it will shoot just fine in the end. Actually i learn more from barrels like this one than i do from the ones that shoot right away. Im getting closer but just not quite there yet. Like i said above it looks like it likes the bullets backed off the jam 20-30 thou. I really dont have a grasp on the powder charge yet though. Next outing im going to try 35gr. I wish i didnt have to go that high, but i am willing to do whatever i have to to do. I am also going to look around the 33.5gr area. I also wish i had another type of powder to try. I have had excellent results with Benchmark in the past but its pretty darn slow. Maybe with this 22.5" barrel i will get some better velocity??
We shoot the 30br out to 400 yards yesterday in our local Varmint match. Those short fat 118gr bullets sure dont do very good at that distance. LOL!!! For 100 and 200 yards i love it but much farther than that it becomes a choir!!!
Thanks fellas for all the replies. this has been a good topic, and i have enjoyed the read! Have a good evening gentlemen! Lee
This is my second 30br barrel. The first was a bartlein 17 twist that shoot outstandingly well with just about anything i put down it. This one is a bit different but i do believe it will shoot just fine in the end. Actually i learn more from barrels like this one than i do from the ones that shoot right away. Im getting closer but just not quite there yet. Like i said above it looks like it likes the bullets backed off the jam 20-30 thou. I really dont have a grasp on the powder charge yet though. Next outing im going to try 35gr. I wish i didnt have to go that high, but i am willing to do whatever i have to to do. I am also going to look around the 33.5gr area. I also wish i had another type of powder to try. I have had excellent results with Benchmark in the past but its pretty darn slow. Maybe with this 22.5" barrel i will get some better velocity??
We shoot the 30br out to 400 yards yesterday in our local Varmint match. Those short fat 118gr bullets sure dont do very good at that distance. LOL!!! For 100 and 200 yards i love it but much farther than that it becomes a choir!!!
Thanks fellas for all the replies. this has been a good topic, and i have enjoyed the read! Have a good evening gentlemen! Lee
J
jo191145
Guest
Lee, I agree 100%. Its the finicky ones that teach us.
Just spent four months off and on with my first 30BR. Built on a T&T'd Savage action with a 2oz. trigger. (I know, everyone hates Savages cept me)
Besides the choice in action I followed all the rules. Consistently the worse shooting semi custom gun I've ever had. I changed everything including action on that Benchmark barrel several times and nothing worked. Changed bullets, powder, primers, jammed to jumped and nothing worked. a good load shot .5 - 1 moa. Out of the node was 2 moa.
Obviously something was unhappy besides me. Very close to smashing the whole shebang over a rock.
To make a long story short in an act of desperate frustration I switched from the normal .003-.004" neck tension and went to .001"
Only had a handful of semi suitable bullets left to fire. 135gn SMK's. Was'nt about to spend real money on real bullets for a 1moa gun ya know.
Darned if that barrel did'nt start shooting groups all of a sudden. Ran out of 135's using Benchmark at 35.2 gns and .007" past just touching.
That last group was .347" at 200 yds. Velocity is definately slow at 2680fps.
Confidence is high enough to have ordered some 115gn Bergers for testing and just in case some more 135's also.
Just spent four months off and on with my first 30BR. Built on a T&T'd Savage action with a 2oz. trigger. (I know, everyone hates Savages cept me)
Besides the choice in action I followed all the rules. Consistently the worse shooting semi custom gun I've ever had. I changed everything including action on that Benchmark barrel several times and nothing worked. Changed bullets, powder, primers, jammed to jumped and nothing worked. a good load shot .5 - 1 moa. Out of the node was 2 moa.
Obviously something was unhappy besides me. Very close to smashing the whole shebang over a rock.
To make a long story short in an act of desperate frustration I switched from the normal .003-.004" neck tension and went to .001"
Only had a handful of semi suitable bullets left to fire. 135gn SMK's. Was'nt about to spend real money on real bullets for a 1moa gun ya know.
Darned if that barrel did'nt start shooting groups all of a sudden. Ran out of 135's using Benchmark at 35.2 gns and .007" past just touching.
That last group was .347" at 200 yds. Velocity is definately slow at 2680fps.
Confidence is high enough to have ordered some 115gn Bergers for testing and just in case some more 135's also.
Pete Wass
Well-known member
The best node for these rifles seems to be 2960 to 3000 fps. Those slow nodes sometimes shoot well initally but the wind will eat your lunch. You need to consider faster powder. Most people use H-4198 and N-130 is a very good one. I am currently finding great results with Re-7. Most of the barrels I have or have used seem to like to have their bullets around.006 into the lands from where you can just barely see land marks on the bullets. I know people do a lot of different things to tune , I am only sharing what I do. I also use a lot of neck tension.
You might try some Speer TNT's . They seem to shoot very well in the 30 BR or any thirty, for that matter.
You might try some Speer TNT's . They seem to shoot very well in the 30 BR or any thirty, for that matter.
J
jo191145
Guest
Thanks for your thoughts Pete. Trust me I did my homework and read the literature. I shot over 400 TNT's starting with initial fireforming of 100pcs of brass and H-4198. Tried another box of Lapua 123gner's. Hornady 110 V-Max. 135SMK's and excuse the infraction even some 147gn Winchester FMJ. A bullet not worthy of a slingshot but I did it anyway.
Shot H-4198, RL-7. Tried a little N-530 with the heavy stuff. Even tried Ramshot X-Terminator with the 147's. Did'nt switch to Benchmark until I tried .001" tension.
These were pills I already had on hand. I figured after fireforming the brass with 100 TNT's I'd order up some real bullets. Even during fireforming I knew something was wrong so I never bought decent bullets for the gun. The gun was just shooting globs for groups. Even with the nonpedigree bullets it should exhibit some degree of repeatable accuracy. I've launched most of those pills out of a 13 twist Kreiger barrel in 308W so I knew what to expect.
Never saw any repeatable accuracy until I switched to .001". My only quess is my neck turning is not exact enough. Its not as precise as you pro's would do but it looked at least OK to me. I'm gonna look up an old machinist friend of mine and have him mic the stuff up, get some proffesional measurements, oponions and maybe even clean it up on a lathe with an oversized mandrel. I intentionally overcut to .0095 neck wall already tho. Best bet might be order some already preprepped at this point.
Once I figure out why .001" is the only tension that works for me, hopefully correct the issue, then perhaps I can proceed to find a suitable load with a suitable bullet and suitable powder.
Yep that big honkin 135 is slow. But the BC is a tad higher. With .001'' and a standard Robinette reamer it would be a huge challenge trying to make it go faster. Providing it can even maintain a somewhat competitive degree of accuracy. The puter says at 2680 it outperforms the 115 Berger at 3000fps.
Of course the puter never hands out any wood
Shot H-4198, RL-7. Tried a little N-530 with the heavy stuff. Even tried Ramshot X-Terminator with the 147's. Did'nt switch to Benchmark until I tried .001" tension.
These were pills I already had on hand. I figured after fireforming the brass with 100 TNT's I'd order up some real bullets. Even during fireforming I knew something was wrong so I never bought decent bullets for the gun. The gun was just shooting globs for groups. Even with the nonpedigree bullets it should exhibit some degree of repeatable accuracy. I've launched most of those pills out of a 13 twist Kreiger barrel in 308W so I knew what to expect.
Never saw any repeatable accuracy until I switched to .001". My only quess is my neck turning is not exact enough. Its not as precise as you pro's would do but it looked at least OK to me. I'm gonna look up an old machinist friend of mine and have him mic the stuff up, get some proffesional measurements, oponions and maybe even clean it up on a lathe with an oversized mandrel. I intentionally overcut to .0095 neck wall already tho. Best bet might be order some already preprepped at this point.
Once I figure out why .001" is the only tension that works for me, hopefully correct the issue, then perhaps I can proceed to find a suitable load with a suitable bullet and suitable powder.
Yep that big honkin 135 is slow. But the BC is a tad higher. With .001'' and a standard Robinette reamer it would be a huge challenge trying to make it go faster. Providing it can even maintain a somewhat competitive degree of accuracy. The puter says at 2680 it outperforms the 115 Berger at 3000fps.
Of course the puter never hands out any wood
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jackie schmidt
New member
"the (com)puter never hands out any wood"
That's the truth. I remember a couple of years ago, Greg Anderson of Pro Stock Fame, after a round loss, was lamenting about a motor that just did not seem to be up to par, the dyno numbers had been really good. But, as he reminded the interviewer, "we don't race Dynos".........jackie
That's the truth. I remember a couple of years ago, Greg Anderson of Pro Stock Fame, after a round loss, was lamenting about a motor that just did not seem to be up to par, the dyno numbers had been really good. But, as he reminded the interviewer, "we don't race Dynos".........jackie
J
jo191145
Guest
We don't race Dynos..... Funny but true Jackie. Of course at one point or other we've all been tempted to shoot computers.