30BR, 4198, 112's and Other Stuff

Vv n120

jackie schmidt said:
No, this is a 30BR, with an overall trim to length of 1.550.

In my 30PPC, we shoot 4227, and N120.

jackie
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Jackie:

I was digging back through this thread and found the quote above. I have no H-4198 at present and I am waiting to work up a powder order with my pardners. I have plenty of N120. I have run the numbers in Quickload and it comes out to be a bit faster than H-4198. Its grain structure is more like H-4198. Has anyone done much load development with N120 in 30 BR?

Jeffrey Tooker
 
Jeffery

I think back when Randy first developed his version of the 30BR, they used 4227 and 120.

From my experience so far, I would think 120 would be a tad fast for ultimate accuracy. Sort of like shooting N130 in a 6PPC. (The factory Lapua Loadings used 130). But it proves to be too fast when looking for ultimate agging capability. Forsome reason, the full case of 133 just does better.

Sort oflike that full case of 4198 in the 30BR.

I have wanted to try Reloader 7. In theory, it looks like a good match.......jackie
 
jackie schmidt said:
... I have wanted to try Reloader 7. In theory, it looks like a good match.......jackie
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RL7 works pretty well in the 30BR with bullets in the 110-118 grain area. I've used it a bunch. Use a bit less than you would with H4198.
 
H4198 n120

AVanGorder said:
RL7 works pretty well in the 30BR with bullets in the 110-118 grain area. I've used it a bunch. Use a bit less than you would with H4198.
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Well I probably will not have all the components for the new rifle for about three months. I have to get some H4198 but for now I will work with the N120 as I am not doing any serious business with the test barrel. I will make brass, set up dies and generally get comfortable with the 30 BR in my test barrel. The barrel is 10 twist and the bullets are 125 gr factory, and the brass is old 7 BR Remington. The barrel is in a 12BVSS not the LRPV, so the whole thing is something to keep me busy untill the real stuff gets here.

Jeffrey
 
I'm just back

from the range where I was testing Re-7 in one of my 30-44's. I found a good node @ 35.5g. I have been shooting it with 38g in those cases and it shoots just OK there. The 35.5g seems to be at the 2950 ish node. Based on this finding I would say less is more with Re-7. :)
 
jackie schmidt said:
The way I make my brass is this.

I took a standard worn out 6BR Barrel and ran a .330 reamer into the neck. This, more or less, is a 30BR chamber with a 6mm bore in front of it.

I then simply shoot a fully loaded 6BR case in that barrel. What comes out is a "Factory" 30BR with most of the originol length retained.

I then neck turn, and for all purpose, they are ready to go to the line.

I make cases this way because it is so simple. You can screw that barrel on your Rifle, spend a hour at the range firing forming them, and you have cases that are dead straight.

This is also perfectly safe, as you are shooting a 6mm bullet down a 6mm barrel, as opposed to our shooting the 22 bullet in a 6mm barrel to make a 6PPC from a 220 Russian...........jackie
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Jackie, you ordered a 30BR reamer to run into a 6mm barrel...you must have ordered it with a 6mm pilot...I cant imagine how a 30 caliber pilot would fit into a 6mm bore..:confused:
 
Velocity Nodes

Pete Wass said:
from the range where I was testing Re-7 in one of my 30-44's. I found a good node @ 35.5g. The 35.5g seems to be at the 2950 ish node. Based on this finding I would say less is more with Re-7. :)
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After following this thread forsome time (as a novice) it seems the most consistent thing is the velocity "nodes". From what little I have geaned it seems that the desired node velocities can be obtained with several powders and in the area of the node velocity groups seem to get smaller. This is with neck tension and seating depth held constant. This seems to hold true with all the several powders. It does seem that the groups are smaller with certain specific powders i.e. H 4198. If I am incorrect in my observation please tell me. So is one looking for a certain velocity node as a starting point? Or is one looking for reduced group size regardless of velocity?

Jeffrey
 
Jeffrey

I am taking a different approach wuth the 30 caliber than what I do with my 6PPC. With the 6, I have always found that with the available powder, (133), the best overall agging capability is in the upper velocity window. There are some drawbacks, but I believe the pros out weigh the cons.

However, with the 30BR and the 4198, it seems that there is a really accurate window right at 3000 fps with a 112 grn bullet. Sure, you could kick the thing up to 3150, but why??. I believe the cons outweight the pros in that situation.

Believe me, if I thought there was something to be gained up there, I would go there in a second. But, agging capability trumps everything in this game, and it seems like I have a pretty good combo in that regard.........jackie
 
Jackie: The barrel

jackie schmidt said:
I am taking a different approach wuth the 30
However, with the 30BR and the 4198, it seems that there is a really accurate window right at 3000 fps with a 112 grn bullet. Sure, you could kick the thing up to 3150, but why??. I believe the cons outweight the pros in that situation.

that regard.........jackie
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I have ordered is a bit longer than normal. The barrel is Schilen. It is large Savage diameter at the chamber end and for a few inches it then tapers to 1" at 28". I would like to try the 2950+ area with BIB 118 7 OG. I do not believe hotter is necessarily better. I think I will start with .004" neck tension and .030" jam seating depth. I take it that the charge will be about 33.5 gr H 4198. I need to learn how to use the chrony that I got some months ago. So I have plenty of "projects" to keep me busy untill the "Real 30 BR" gets here.

Jeffrey
 
Jeffrey,
I have a savage with a shilen prefit 1:17 that shoots very well with the 118 BIB 7-ogives with 34.1gr H4198, .020 into the lands and .003 neck tension.
I would start at the lands and work out from there. You'd be surprised what you might find out there. The other thing to take into consideration is the pressure you would be developing with the heavier neck tension. Be sure to make sure the gun can handle it. Mine was ok, but started to show pressure signs above 34.1gr. You SHOULD be ok with the load you mentioned, but it might be wise to start at 33gr and work up. You may also be surprised to find a node down in that range that works as well (I did not though my father's rifle did...just not as good as at 34.2 in his rifle). Jackie is right that sometimes less is more, and if you can find a node less than 34gr your brass will last forever.
Hope this helps,
Mike
 
Mike: My Barrel

savet06 said:
Jeffrey,
I have a savage with a shilen prefit 1:17 that shoots very well with the 118 BIB 7-ogives with 34.1gr H4198, .020 into the lands and .003 neck tension.
I would start at the lands and work out from there. You'd be surprised what you might find out there. The other thing to take into consideration is the pressure you would be developing with the heavier neck tension. Be sure to make sure the gun can handle it. Mine was ok, but started to show pressure signs above 34.1gr. You SHOULD be ok with the load you mentioned, but it might be wise to start at 33gr and work up. You may also be surprised to find a node down in that range that works as well (I did not though my father's rifle did...just not as good as at 34.2 in his rifle). Jackie is right that sometimes less is more, and if you can find a node less than 34gr your brass will last forever.
Hope this helps,
Mike
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is also 17 twist. It seems your load and mine are in the same ball park. Mine starts lighter than yours which is good. Once I establish seating depth, I will run the numbers in Quickload. I will have a good idea on pressure before I start. I will check pressure signs. I will keep your info in mind.

Thank you.

Jeffrey
 
Jackie, why would there be an advantage in the agging capability with an extra 150fps in the 6 but not in the .30 ????

And if that don't fly -----------

Why don't you feel as if the 6 offers good agging capability at 3,300 instead of your 3,450fps ????
 
What type of primers

There have been many loads stated for 30 BR on this thread. However little mention of primers. With H 4198 are standard primers the ones to use or are magnum primers required?

Jeffrey Tooker
 
Right now I am using Rem 7 1/2's and plan on testing other primers to see if there is anything to gain with another primer. The remington's are shooting well, I might add.
 
Pat

The best I can say is the 30BR-4198 Combination just doesn't act the same as the 6PPC-133 Combination.

I never could make a 6PPC stay in tune at the lower nodes. Sure, I could tune it to shoot small groups, but later the same load just goes verticle.

The 30 just doesn't act that way. In all honesty, I have not taken it to another "window", if there is one up at about 3150. The thing just stays tuned at that magic 3000 fps with the 112 bullet.

Pat, I wish I could get 6mm barrels as nice as these 30's we are getting. Every one is dead straight, the lands and grooves are dead on even, and the things just plain shoot.

Pat, you should build one of these. They are a hoot, whether you shoot one in Competition or not. Just sitting down and watching those big bullets go on top of one another is a trip.........jackie
 
Primers

Jeffreytooker said:
There have been many loads stated for 30 BR on this thread. However little mention of primers. With H 4198 are standard primers the ones to use or are magnum primers required?

Jeffrey Tooker
Click to expand...


I don't think primers matter a whole lot with the 30 BR. I spent a lot of time cronoing primers a number of years ago and with the primers I had in my posession at that time the Winchester Small Rifle primers gave the best numbers. Most recently I have been using Wolf MSR primers without any adverse results that I can detect. It seems that everyone has their favorite primer for one reason or another. I think they all work well enough and if it's a "Feel Good Thing" use what makes ya feel good. :D
 
Orders and back orders

Pete Wass said:
I don't think primers matter a whole lot with the 30 BR. I think they all work well enough and if it's a "Feel Good Thing" use what makes ya feel good. :D
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Pete:

It may be a matter of what I have for primers, considering the present shortage of components. I have enough WSR for for the rest of the year. Primers may become an issue before spring. I have two jugs of H4198 on backorder. The Shilen barrel should be here in August. The rest of the stuff on backorder should (hope hope !!!) be here by then. Right now I am reading Ratigan.

Jeffrey Tooker
 
There have been other shortages

in the past and having lived through one a few years back I make sure I have more than one year's supply on hand. I did get lax and low on WSR primers this year. Fortunately I bought some Wolf primers before the run on components or I would be sucking wind right now. I would have to make up some LR primer cases for the 30 BR and would not be able to use the big Lapua cases.
 
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