.30 BR powders

H

henrya

Guest
I've been shooting some very old H4198 in my .30 BR (so old its Scottish made). I'm shooting Lapua brass, 118 Knights and RWS primers (also antique like my 4198). Barrel is a 1-18 Krieger. I can't get enough powder in the case to show any pressure. Packed full its a pain to seat bullets. Its shooting pretty good but its about time for new powder and I have a few questions. Hands on answers are preferred.

With current production H4198 how full is the case when its at max pressure?

Same question for N130

Same for any other powders I should try.

And some opinions - given that a rifle can never agg. too good, what do y'all feel is a reasonable agging ability to accept? Where do y'all stop searching for a better load and just start shooting?

Thanks in advance.
 
Henry a

When it comes to agging capability of the 30BR, you should strive for that magic sub.200 capability. That is what everybody else will be doing.
N130 and 4198 seem to be the powders of choice. My friends who shoot 30BR's. (I shoot a 30PPC), are using the current lots of 4198 with great results.
Some say that N130 might be a tad slow for the 112 through 118 grn bullets, although there are shooters who swear by it........jackie
 
henrya said:
I've been shooting some very old H4198 in my .30 BR (so old its Scottish made). I'm shooting Lapua brass, 118 Knights and RWS primers (also antique like my 4198). Barrel is a 1-18 Krieger. I can't get enough powder in the case to show any pressure. Packed full its a pain to seat bullets. Its shooting pretty good but its about time for new powder and I have a few questions. Hands on answers are preferred.

With current production H4198 how full is the case when its at max pressure?

Same question for N130

Same for any other powders I should try.

And some opinions - given that a rifle can never agg. too good, what do y'all feel is a reasonable agging ability to accept? Where do y'all stop searching for a better load and just start shooting?

Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...

Using 130 or 4198 powders and bullets no heavier than 118, I've never personally heard of anyone shooting too hot. Well up the neck in most cases that I've observed.

A couple of weeks ago I shot cases loaded with 130 to around 1/8" below the neck and using Wolf small rifle magnum primers with no primer flattening or any sign of bolt lift.
 
i shoot a full case & still have no pressure signs,my shooting partner uses a long drop tube & slowly trickles it in at 65+2 clicks on his harrels measure & still doesn't show any pressure signs,he's shooting a 115gr at about 3170 over our chrono,he runs a .001 total clearance with .005 neck tension to keep the bullets in,i think he's getting close though,he did blow a primer this weekend,i should mention i use a short drop tube & just drop it in,usually my load of 34.8gr is about1/8 down from the top,this is all with h4198,hope that helps
 
henrya said:
With current production H4198 how full is the case when its at max pressure?

Same question for N130
Click to expand...

With H4198 its going to be way up in the neck. In fact I do not believe you can get enough into a case to get signs of over pressure. You can get enough in case to make your primer pockets get loose after a few firings however.

I believe with the difficulty obtaining N130 and its higher price it is better to stay away from it.

Old BR 2015 works ok but you cannot get enough of the current production 2015 in a case to be useful. I am told H 322 works well also but have not personally tried it.
 
Want something different...?

Try some H-322...I have had 110-112 grain bullets up to 3225fps without pressure, but I shoot at about 3050 for accuracy...I was told that one could not get enough H-322 in the case to get good velocities, but my chronograph shows the velocities I posted...
My rifle holds the club record at 100-200 yards..I also use a Kreiger 18 twist barrel...
Try it you might like it...:D
 
I may try some H322. I have some and its not even from the stone age - maybe early 90's. Staying away from N130 seems good advice given the cost and availability. And there's none of that in town anyway.

Dropped real slow, my old style H4198 (big fat kernels, not the new kind that is short cut) fills the case flush to the mouth. I was kinda hoping that the new stuff would be a little more dense but it sounds like that's not the case. I have a Jones measure so my clicks don't compare to Harrel clicks. But a case full pretty well sums it up.

I'm at a .350 agg for 10 groups, no sighters, varying seating depths and powder charges as I go, some of it fireforming. Ranging from .193 to half inch (threw one) for 50 rounds fired, no sighters, just shoot five in a hole and do it ten times. I am amazed how this rifle seems to shoot pretty good no matter what.

I'm trying to shoot it dirty so I'm kinda in line with match conditions. It is the most non-fouling rifle I've ever owned and cleans so easy. I shoot a full score target by shooting a five shot group on the sighter then finishing the target. In other words I'm doing things that I know don't help the aggs and are tough on the rifle.

Thanks for all the suggestions and keep 'em coming if you have more to add.
 
In addition to those already mentioned, these are always worth a look:

RL-7; H-4227 (you can put too much of this Number in the case, but it usually shoots GREAT); N-120 (DITTO on the PLUS P possibilities) . . . and anything else in the aproximate burn-rate range. Regardless of powder number and bullet weight (at least, up to 125 Gr.) , the goodies usually come at around 2950 - 2980 FPS, and again at 3020 to 3050, then again in the low 3100s . . . Good shootin'! RG
 
One Caution

The current 4227, (Australian)), is pretty fast. We shoot it in our 30PPC's, and it shoots really great.
But, there is a very fine line between every thing looking good, and primers falling out of the cases. Once you reach that upper window, excessive pressure is just a few "tenths' down the road. Just be careful........jackie
 
Good reminder

4227 is just a bit too dense (or fast) for the .30 BR in an ideal/theoretical sense. But my measure throws it well and I'm used to dealing with less than a case full so I'm not too worried. I have some stone age 4227 and I'll give it a go too - if it shoots it shoots. Shooting powder I already own is an economy that is hard to look past!

First match of the season for me is this weekend and maybe one trip to the range beforehand if I'm lucky. So maybe I'll be shootin' the end of my antique H4198.
 
Both Wilbur & I used 4227 in our 30-BR rail guns back in the dark ages (before 2000). But it was always tempting to use just a bit too much powder; you'd run right up to what seemed good & start spitting a few shots from too high pressure. Wilbur's barrel probably had a problem; it always threw a few shots in an agg, but mine didn't -- except when I tried to get to 2,950 with 4227 & ran into spitting a few shots -- and loosening primer pockets, having to pound the bolt open, things like that.

If you take what is there, it can work for you.

I've heard reports that N-560 will work, but it is probably even harder to get & more expensive than N-130. I've got 2 pounds but haven't tried it yet. That stuff is dense, you can get 36 grains in a case -- THAT IS NOT A LOAD RECOMMENDATION, just a capacity. Apparently, the velocity won't be too high, but reportedly, the accuracy was there.
 
Charles E, I would of thought that 560 was way to slow. I have about 10 Lbs of it. Can you give me a starter charge for this powder, with 118 gr. bullets????????
 
NeilNE said:
Charles E, I would of thought that 560 was way to slow. I have about 10 Lbs of it. Can you give me a starter charge for this powder, with 118 gr. bullets????????
Click to expand...
Nope. I would have thought it too slow too. I got some to use in a .223 with heavy bullets, about like 4895. But when I was at the range, I good benchrest shooter mentioned that it worked well in the 30-BR -- unless I misremember. He did say that velocity was a little off.

But this is a double-base powder; a lot of energy, and quite dense. Sometimes the burning rate charts don't tell the whole tale. If you've got 10 pounds, it might be worth a little just to see.

The other possible use is a 6PPC with heavy bullets -- like 95-grainers, either VLD or maybe Randy Robinett's FB. A nice 600 yard round, or if you believe Ferris Pindell, maybe a nice 200 yard round.

Lots of things just never get tried, but I'm a fan of modern double-base powders.
 
H322

H322 was good - nice round groups, real clean shooting, fills to the base of the bullet, measures great. It was a bit gusty and switchy (9-17 mph) so today was partly a shooting/wind doping test. I'm going with H322 for this weekend.
 
Keep us updated on how you shoot with the H-322...I have had my best results with it...:D
 
A few years ago - -

We tried 322 and it shot great but yielded substancially less bullet speed than some of the others. Has that changed with newer lots?

We also found that the velocitys would go down after we reached a certain point with loads. Is that still true?
 
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