30-30s in benchrest - Aussie question

I had a call today from Ken Martens from South Australia. He shoots a 30-30 in benchrest and is seeking information from others doing the same thing. Didn't somebody successfully campaign a 30-30 this year? I have an email address for him and will pass along any contacts or information.

Ken has an email address but has not yet found this forum. I am sending him an email with a link so he may be able to communicate directly.

Jeff Stover
jstover33@verizon.net
 
Last edited:
Here's one...

I had a call today from Ken Martens from South Australia. He shoots a 30-30 in benchrest and is seeking information from others doing the same thing. Didn't somebody successfully campaign a 30-30 this year? I have an email address for him and will pass along any contacts or information.

Ken has an email address but has not yet found this forum. I am sending him an email with a link so he may be able to communicate directly.

Jeff Stover
jstover33@verizon.net

Mike Turner often competes with his 30/30 in group competition. He's often on this forum.

virg
 
Mike Turner often competes with his 30/30 in group competition. He's often on this forum.

virg


Yes....

mturner is his Benchrest Central handle...
Michael is an ATHORITY on the 30-30 in competitive Benchrest.
Not to mention a good man whom will help his fellow Benchrest competitors..
I know...:)

Mike may stumble on this thread but Jeff you can personal message Mike at
mturner.

Hope this helps,
cale
 
Quite right...

I believe Al Weaver's son, Sam I think, shot one quite successfully in score.

I shot against Sam in several Hunter matches in Tomball several years ago and he was the one to beat ( I never did). I've lost track of him since he moved. That 30/30 of his was a super "X" puncher.

virg
 
30-30

The one that Michael Turner uses is very dependent on case prepration, he performs some pretty sophiscated work in the way. of the flash holes. That requires some tools to be made.

I am sure Mike will come on and say just what all he does. The thing shoots about as well as a well tuned 30BR............JACKIE
 
The 30-30

I guess timing is everything. As of yesterday, I hadn't been on BR Central since early October.

I will mention modifications as recommended and not recommended.

I recommend the large primer cases with Wolf primers over the small primer pocket 30 American brass unless you are reducing the case capacity. I do have a .150" short 30-30 that duplicates the 30BR in capacity, and I am looking forward to testing 30 American brass with that round. Also remember that the 30-30 capacity can't be challenged for hunter class competition that has based the capacity on the 30-30 to begin with, as long as you don't reduce it's capacity.

I recommend a reamer with zero freebore and a neck diameter of .328". This is the reamer dimension, the brass is turned to .326". The reamer should use the stock shoulder angle of 15 deg 39 min. The shoulder should use minimal radius at the body shoulder junction and at the neck shoulder junction of .015" to .03" to minimize brass flow. The reamer diameter at the base should be around .3175" and .404" at the shoulder.

I do not recommend increasing the shoulder angle to the typical 30 deg, nor do I recommend less body taper. The 30-30 already has a body taper similar to the PPC of around .010" per inch. Increasing the shoulder angle only leads to having to bump the shoulder, which is the major cause of case stretch. I have personally learned the many times the improved cases are no improvement at all, unless you just like fireforming cases in your spare time. This is why the 220 Beggs and 6mm Beggs is more liked by some competitors. Fireformed cases are usually not as uniform, and having to bump the shoulder needs to be done precisely in order to minmize headspace and increase case life. This is why I keep the shoulder angle on the 30-30 stock. I don't have to bump the shoulder back to facilitate bolt closing.

The things mentioned next are not necessary, but recommended. I have no proof that these modifications improve accuracy, but feel that they are important to some degree if you desire to have a more blueprinted design. I have used the 30-30 without these mods in the beginning and had great success, but as I strive to increase agging potential, these modifications seemed only natural.

Last year I started facing the rims to a uniform thickness of .055" -.0555". The bolt face to the back of the barrel measures .056". This gives me better control over headspace that any BR round out there. When you consider the the shoulder is never bumped, this makes it even better. Talk about minimizing case stretch. This is the best way. This also simplifies sizing die selection. I use a Lee collet die to size the necks. Just polish the mandrel a thousandth or so is you need more neck tension. The only other sizing necessary is to size the base with a ring die. You can make a ring die from steel and use case lube. I recommend taking a .380 Auto Lee carbide pistol die, and using a lathe, grind the carbide ring to the proper diameter. If I'm not mistaking, Lee will make ring dies to custom diameters.

Another modification that may help is to shrink the flash hole diameter from .082" down to .072". This is a quick modification to make using a reloading press. After the swagging tool is made ( I can provide information on how to do this), the operation itself is as fast as seating a bullet. This operation not only shrinks the flash hole, but it also makes these modifications to the case at the same time. It uniforms the flash hole diameter at the same time, along with uniforming the depth of the primer pocket, and removes the burr from the inside of the flash hole, replacing it with a small radius. This may be more than some want to tackle, so just remember I had excellent results with the 30-30 prior to this step.

The 30-30 likes a lot of different powder and bullet combinations. Loads range in velocities between 2950 and 3300 fps. Powders for the 110gr to the 125gr bullets include: RE7, N130, H4198, RE10X, AA2015, 4197, H322, 8208, N133, Benchmark, H4895, and others.

The load I used to win the two-gun in Colorado was 39.5gr of N133 behind a 118gr Cheek. This load runs around 3000fps. This load was never changed throughout the match. This is not my pet load, just a load I tried that day with success. I personally feel that there are far better loads for my rifle, that will stay in tune over a much wider range of conditions. The barrel was an 18" twist Bartlein.

Pictures can be seen from another post I started titled (How I make the 30-30 Agg.) It can be found by clicking on my username and going to the statistics tab, then to threads started by mturner. These pictures show case and barrel modifications for proper headspacing.

It is also very important that the scope be up to the task of handling 30 caliber recoil. I have personnaly seen 3 of my own scopes work well with the 6PPC or 6BR, but when put on the 30-30, wouldn't shoot any better than my hunting rifles. After I posi-locked these scopes along with other modifications (which can also be seen in an earlier thread I started), the groups quickly became very competitive.

The accuracy you should look for from the 30-30 should be as follows: occasional zeros, common ones, and when not on top of it twos and threes, just like a PPC that's not in tune. Thirty's do have to be tuned just like any other BR round out there. I have seen just as much vertical as any other shooter when the gun is not in tune. Is a 30 easier to keep in tune? Definetly. When I shot in New Braunfals, I shot the same load for 3 years, and set range records for all 3 years. The load was 40gr AA2015 (Israeli) topped with a 125gr Berger.

If anyone has any question, just let me know. Any information can be forwarded to others. May be errors, I didn't proof read.

Michael
 
Michael Turner

Michael
Did you catch the Post I wrote earlier how Harvey Miller set the record using his famous then Snake Gun back in 1981, I will check on the date, shot the first sub .2 agg NBRSA record .1629 in LV 100 with his case the 6 MCR a 30-30 case formed to accept a 6mm bullet. He also made a 22 MCR off a 30-30 case also.

Stephen Perry
Angeles BR
 
Stephen

Can you give me more details on the 6 MCR? I did not see the post at all. I would like even case specs if you can come up with them.

Michael
 
Michael

I still think you need a NM hunting licesne to shoot those rifles of yours! I'll bring ya a blaze orange vest for the first match at Raton!
Awsome thuty-thuty's
Bryan
 
Real men

I still think you need a NM hunting licesne to shoot those rifles of yours! I'll bring ya a blaze orange vest for the first match at Raton!
Awsome thuty-thuty's
Bryan



Shoot 30's Bryan :) . Get er done with a 30 and one has accomplished something worth doing.
 
Mike builds a beautifl rifle. He also built the action. Really a piece of art. And one that shoots, course some of that is probably due to the driver.

Donald
 
30-30

Now this is the real deal, and exactly why I frequent this forum! Excellent info and a true success story for a venerable old round that many of us got our start with. While no benchrest piece, I had a Handi-rifle chambered in 7.62 Tokarev that outperforms all my expectations in the thick NH woods. The American spirit can be a powerful force when channeled in the right direction, eh? Happy holidays to all, Guy
 
Where can I get a tool to shrink the flash holes on my brass?

I'm talkn .243 & .308 brass if it matters.

I have thought about doing this before but never came up with a good idea as to how to do it.
 
Now this is the real deal, and exactly why I frequent this forum! Excellent info and a true success story for a venerable old round that many of us got our start with. While no benchrest piece, I had a Handi-rifle chambered in 7.62 Tokarev that outperforms all my expectations in the thick NH woods. The American spirit can be a powerful force when channeled in the right direction, eh? Happy holidays to all, Guy

Do you mean 7.62X25 Tokarev, or the 7.62X54R?

I'd almost bought a old model Topper , the predecessor of the Handi Guns, with a .30-30 barrel, the barrel came separate from the same gunshop but the barrel was a new one and had never been installed on that gun before.

I'd intended to have the 30-30 barrel rechambered for the .303 so I could use the more easily available .308 bullets.
Probably not such a good idea in the long run, since tests run on Ruger No.1 actions with .308 barrels chambered in .303 (the fellow that ordered these had the same idea about using .308 bullets)showed a significant increase in pressures when standard .311 bullets were used, even though theres only .003 difference in bullet to bore size.
The increased pressures from bores only slightly undersized for the bullet have been noted in testing done by the UK NRA and British ammunition manufacturers.
Not enough to blow out an action on the first few shots, but enough to compromise the strength of some older action types.

Russian and Finn 7.62 bores vary greatly, from .309 or even smaller to .316 and possibly larger.
How well an undersized bore handles an bullet several thousandths larger depends on the bullet construction and pressure curve of the propellant.
 
Holy freakin' Michael Turner Info Bat Man!!!!

Good post Mr Turner....... GREAT post Mr Turner......

thank you

al
 
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