243 target rifle problem

G

geneinnc

Guest
I need to run this one by more minds than mine! I have a new Remington 700.
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Before I start here are the specs per Remington:
243 cal 26" heavy barrel 9 1/8" twist weight with scope over 11 lbs laminated stock

The rifle has the following:

SCOPE: New Leupold 8.5 x 25 AO with 2 piece Leupold Rings & Bases
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STOCK: glassed & headspace by the best gunsmith in NC. 18 oz trigger

Gun was given standard break in, oil after first 10 rounds then every 5 rounds with Hornady Custom SST 95 gr

BENCH SET UP: Farley co ax rest with custom front rest bag to fit the stock. Golden Eagle rear rest.

TEST CONDITIONS: 100 yards off concrete table. Scope was reset rearward because I was chasing the scope. then re leveled using my Level Level. Wind variable, per my wind meter 5 to 10 mph & wind flags. NO shots taken unless wind was under 5 mph. Barrel cooled after 3 shots.

PROBLEM: My 22 M4 grouped as well with a 4 x scope. Seriously, were talking 3" groups! The scoped seemed to be working fine. It was bore sighted and tool 2 minor clicks to put it dead on at 25 yards. As expected, the impact point was 8" high at 100, I dialed it down 4", and it moved 4". Another 4" adjustment put it on the 3" orange dot I was using.

After that I went through 20 rounds, with minor adjustments on the scope. There was no rhyme no reason to the groups. It was simply all over the 3" dot.

I don't claim to be an expert, but I have been doing this close to 40 years and I won't own even a hunting rifle that isn't sub moa. I shoot a good bit of competition, so I don't think it was me. I do have horrible vision but I recently was re fitted for glasses & shooting glasses, and were talking the best money can buy.

MY OPINION: I normally reload everything I shoot. In the past I used Hornady Custom when I was breaking in, and to be honest their ammo was equal to Federal Premium off the shelf. I have mated loads to MANY 243's and always had best results with 95 gr Nosler Ballistic Tips.
I realize the SST is not boat tail ammo, but the BC is very close to the Ballistic Tip.

POSSIBLE CAUSES:

Bullet weight. is the 9 1/8" twist for lighter bullets? That dawned on me when I noticed Remington lists this rifle as a VARMINT gun.

The gun just does not like that factory load?

Scope Trouble? Even $1000 Leupold scopes can be faulty, although it would be the first in 40 years.

Get off my but & get back to reloading? I simply have not been able due to health problems.

Find a box of factory 45 to 50 gr Ballistic Tips?

If that fails I guess I need to stick another scope on the gun & send mine back to Leupold?

I AM OPEN TO SUGGESTIONS! I usually overlook the minor details.

Thanks to you all!

Gene
 

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Probable cause # 7

Gene,
In my experience,.243 win chambered factory rifles are dogs.I have had three,a Win sporter and both a Win and Rem Varmint special. None were quite as doggy as yours, but would put two or three shots in a half inch and then launch the mystery shot.I never trusted any of them.One of our BR gunsmiths could rebarrel into a 6BR.and you would be in hog heaven or trade it in on a 22-250 or .223 factory rig.
Joel
 
Did YOU check the action true torque, scope base screws, ring screws, or inspect the bedding? What about the barrel float?
 
My beginning in Benchrest

was with one of those in a 6 MM Rem. It shot not too bad for what it was. It was no competition for Sakos back then and those with the 6 PPC Sakos were King. Once I owned a real BR rifle, Factory rifles became uninteresting. Still that way but I did buy a Stevens 223 last year and have fun trying to make it shoot competatively (Factory Club Shoots) but they just ain't the same, sadly. I have seen some older factory 222's that are as deadly as a .222 BR rifle would be.
 
243 problem

First thing,you are probably using one of the worst bullets to get to shoot very well,i know some people have good luck with them,but i shot a box in various 6mm/243 and only had a krieger barrel that shot them well ,your twist is fine,i shoot the 105 v-max in that twist.Two really good bullets without going to the true benchrest are the 85 gr.sierra b.t.h.p.,80 gr.berger,and for a light bullet the 65gr.v-max will really shoot in most 6mm
 
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Not trying to be smart arsed but we kind of know what a remington looks like, if you could post a picture of the target and you might get more info. Generally when a rifle shoots that bad, unless something is drastically wrong like the bolts and screws being loose and the scope being loose internally or externally, you will never get this barrel to shoot.
 
After you check the tightness of everything. Go get some Remington 100grain Cor-lock ammo and shoot it. If that doesn't tighten it up....reloading is your only choice. I don't know why but I have owned several .243's and this has always been the best factory ammo. A lot of others have agreed who shot the ammo also.

Hovis
 
243

What about barrel breakin, how many rounds have been fired. If your gunsmith re-head spaced the chamber what kind of distance is the factory ammo from the lands. My experience with the 243's I shoot in competition is that they like alot of jump, at least .035"-.045" off the lands. I agree with the remington statement of the Remington Core-loc, if it doesnt like them reload. You might want to take a look at the rifling with a bore scope and look for bad copper deposits.
 
Did you try shooting gun prior to any work being done.? I've had a couple 243 and they both shot less then 3/4inches at 100 yards. I always shoot a gun prior to any work gives you a base to compare.
 
I'll bet thats a 1x10 twist barrel try some 80 gr Factory loads low cost PMC if you can find some. I have a NEF Handi I customed in .243 with factory ammo 100gr would shoot 1" or better but with PMC 80gr and a high powdered scope 10rnds inside a dime. Hand loads at 150yds 3rnds inside an asprin.

The main factor getting it to groups was the right bullet weight for the barrel. Originally a 22" 1x10 twist. 80grain spire points(lead tip) any manufacturer. For Reloads 87gr Hornady Vmax about the heaviest before the laser accuracy begins to fall off. In my loads I use a faster powder than most more like a 6br loads to get well almost 6br accuracy.
 
Additional comment the lighter bullets I tried never shot very good I tried 65gr 70 gr 75 gr 1x10 is slower than your barrels twist. For some reason in the .243 very finicky about bullet weight eg bearing surface to twist ratio. The greenhill or Sierra Modified formulas don't give the answer what works works.

I say 80gr spire points any mfg. Then try the 87gr Hornady Vmax that should tighten things up a bit.

.243 likes CCI 200 or Remington 9 1/2 primers best. Use Remington brass for my reloads. 2.64"OAL is a good 80gr start oal. My rifle like 2.685"OAL

A load around 2900fps seems to provide best harmonics in the .243.

You can load hotter and faster but the groups open up.

42gr H4350 is nice hunting load with the 87 Vmax. Work up to that. Some like H4831sc. I load with H4895 and Reloader 15 34-36grains. Have some other light loads that work nice too and have the same trajectory as my .308 and .223 long range load.
 
Did you put a drop of clear nail polish on the scope rings and scope. I always put a dab on the the inside of both rings after mounting. If the scope moves, you can tell if buy the clear polish breaking loose. I've had a scope on my 300 Mag that I would have sworn it would crush the tube if they were any tighter, but would still move a few microns every shot. I finally put drop of 290 green loctite under each ring. I may not get the rings back off the scope but that sucker never moved again.
 
.243

Gene-I agree with Terry and Joel. Sloppy chambers and wrong bullets! The only .243 I currently own is a Browning lo-wall. It shoots 85g Sierra HPs with 4064 better than any bolt I've owned, which I've gotten rid of, Rem being the worst. I'd get a chamber gauge and see how sloppy the chamber is. Sorry if this is so negative, but as I speak, a couple of my friends have bought .243' s for a PD hunt and are having a helluva time to get them to shoot. Same prob as Terry, Joel, and I ascribe. Good hunting, friend. V/R Greg
 
Where the scope rings lapped?
If not the poor alignment/ contact with the scope tube may be putting stress on the scopes internals.
Remingtons of late have been coming though with grossly misaligned scope base mounting screw holes. Also I have come across pooly machined bases/rings by some manufacturers.
Since lapping rings, I have noticed I don't have to tap the scope to ensure the internal adjustment actually advanced, and with maximum contact the scope tube no longer moves in the rings.
Also expand on your break-in.......not sure what you mean by oil after first 10 rounds..............I would suggest to avoid using oil with teflon in the bore such as Rem-oil.
 
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TEST CONDITIONS: 100 yards off concrete table. Scope was reset rearward because I was chasing the scope. then re leveled using my Level Level. Wind variable, per my wind meter 5 to 10 mph & wind flags. NO shots taken unless wind was under 5 mph. Barrel cooled after 3 shots.

PROBLEM: My 22 M4 grouped as well with a 4 x scope. Seriously, were talking 3" groups! The scoped seemed to be working fine. It was bore sighted and tool 2 minor clicks to put it dead on at 25 yards. As expected, the impact point was 8" high at 100, I dialed it down 4", and it moved 4". Another 4" adjustment put it on the 3" orange dot I was using.

After that I went through 20 rounds, with minor adjustments on the scope. There was no rhyme no reason to the groups. It was simply all over the 3" dot.

Gene:

Looking through some things you mentioned:

No shots taken unless wind was under 5 mph. Shooting same wind direction is also key.

Shooting at a 3" orange dot. Next time try using a 1/2" dot and draw a line horizontally and vertically through dot. Ensure accurate alignment with lines and scope crosshair shot after shot. The old "aim small miss small" applies here.

With no rhyme or reason to the groups, mechanical looseness in scope bases, scope rings, or scope crosshair would be my guess. Also could your barrel be touching your front rest stop versus front of stock forearm prior to "each" shot? Is your rear bag moving?

Would bore cleaning with powder, copper, carbon solvents be a recommendation. Removing even small carbon deposits in a poor shooting barrel can make a big difference in my experience.

If these don't help, would sending scope to Leupold for inspection and repair as needed, and having a gunsmith borescope your barrel be a recommendation.

Hope this helps. Let us all know.

Old Cob
 
First, I don't know why you would have a new gun re-headspaced.
If it was way off,it should go back to the factory.
second, you have said nothing about the bedding. Very Important,
as factory guns are an abomination in that department.
Third, Accuracy is pretty well a handloading thing, I can say that
one in 100 rifles will shoot factory ammo well.
Fourth, I once had a 40x in 243 with a 9" twist and it shot very well.
I'll call it a .350 rifle. 68 grain bullets and 4064 powder. That
barrel is over now.
And Last, a thousand details should be looked at before you waste
postage sending your scope back. Really, you haven't told us much.
 
geneinnc said:
After that I went through 20 rounds, with minor adjustments on the scope. There was no rhyme no reason to the groups. It was simply all over the 3" dot.






Gene
Click to expand...



I would suggest to use a target with multiple bulls. I don't like the orange dots......I prefer black on white for 100 yards....more defined.
Shoot 3 at the first bull, make scope adjustment ,then shoot 3 at second bull............this will eliminate questions on where each shot went.
It may be you were having trouble identifying shot sequence.....20 shots on a 3 " dot is a very "busy" area.
Also, you may have been too quick to make adjustments without confirming how well the rifle would actually group, or where the group wanted to center.

On my first outing with a new rifle/scope combo, once I hit paper, I simply shoot groups, and zeroing-in is the last thing I do for that day's session.
Being a factory barrel, it just may be a 1-1/2 moa gun.........and if you were chasing shots with minor scope adjustments, it could easily account for the 3" aggregate.
 
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