.222 Cases Getting Thick

These cases in this picture had been fired 43 times when this picture was taken..... and that was a while ago.


6X47L rounds.jpg


With properly set up dies you don't have to throw your cases away unless you want to.

al
 
ColColt said:
Brass can still get week after X amount of firings regardless the head space so, what I've done after the incident with the 30-06 is just take a paper clip and bend the end so it goes down in the case and drag that bent part from the bottom up to see if I feel a place that may on the next reload cause a separation. Any that are suspect get tossed, after being crushed.

So, for this .222, if one brand of die is no better/worse than another what's my strategy with the current problem? Back off half a turn on the dies I currently have or seek a custom die for sizing purposes be it FL or neck?

I'll be going to the range next week if it gets some respectful degree above freezing and I'll be sure to measure the fired cases.
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Brass cases can be used "forever" without them weakening in any way, with proper maintenance. And for myself, I never anneal...... unless I'm converting cases for some other use. I would never anneal a string of cases while in use unless I did it every firing. Which I'll never do either ;)

For you, the absolute first thing we need is the measurements I asked for. I feel that I can deduce an answer from that or at least get an answer for the next level of inquiry.

You don't need anything more than a caliper for this. I haven't used a tubing mic for 20yrs.....
al
 
kansasvet-No tubing mike, just a standard mike and two dial gauges. Before I reload any case I take a brass brush and go in and out of the case mouth after they've spent some time in the tumbler so, I don't think there's any carbon per se in there to cause the problem. This rifle was a safe queen for about 20 years and has seen less than than 200 rounds so again, I wouldn't think there's carbon in the chamber. I do clean it with a brush like the barrel.

I wish I had set a couple fired cases aside for measuring. It would have made things a lot easier and a quicker answer to the mystery.
 
German got the mechanism wrong......

He writes,

" Now, as we resize it, we're reducing the diameter of the case along its entire length, but the molecules aren't going back into the original tight lattice, they can't. Instead, the excess material is forced upward along the taper of the case. You'll notice that longer and more tapered cases grow more with each resizing than shorter, less tapered cases. For instance, a 6BR might only need trimming every ten firings, whereas a .30-06 will need trimming every second firing."
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while what he sez here is "kinda' true" in a way, this wouldn't cause casehead separation. Casehead separations occur because people shove the case too far into the die, slipping the shoulder and then the act of firing stretches the case. It simply pulls apart, hence the thinning.

I shoot cases from 220R to 338L with NO trimming, no case growth.
 
Resizing Cases

one of the greatest shooters/match winners,of all times a U.S.LR team member many times as a shooter and as a wind coach.. "Mid Tompkins"...trims cases after every firing...as documented in Nancy Gallager Tompkins book.
Free advice is not always the best.
 
B.Larson said:
one of the greatest shooters/match winners,of all times a U.S.LR team member many times as a shooter and as a wind coach.. "Mid Tompkins"...trims cases after every firing...as documented in Nancy Gallager Tompkins book.
Free advice is not always the best.
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I'm not entirely sure just what your point might be, but I do know that there are a lot of people who while being outstanding shooters, do things that range from unnecessary to downright stupid when it comes to reloading. Would you prefer to have the OP pay for the help he's asking for?
FWIW- I shot all last season in UBR matches with a 220 Beggs and never trimmed the cases, nor do I need to now.

Rick
 
Greyfox said:
I'm not entirely sure just what your point might be, but I do know that there are a lot of people who while being outstanding shooters, do things that range from unnecessary to downright stupid when it comes to reloading. Would you prefer to have the OP pay for the help he's asking for?
FWIW- I shot all last season in UBR matches with a 220 Beggs and never trimmed the cases, nor do I need to now.

Rick
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I won`t argue with a man who calls a world champions methods stupid.
 
The only two things, from what I understand and have read, that causes case head separation is excessive head space created by someone not installing a barrel properly or from adjustment of resizing dies, there may be others. I wish I could have taken a picture of my first, and hopefully the last, case head separation I had but, I wasn't into cameras in 1970 nor were there digital cameras back then. In fact, there was no Internet for showing them. I do know I've never had the need to trim 45 ACP, 357 Magnum, 44 Magnum or 45 Colt cases. Why? They're straight wall cases and just don't seem to grow. I have had to trim 30-06, 270, 308 Norma Magnum, 7mm Rem Magnum and .222 cases
 
B.Larson said:
I won`t argue with a man who calls a world champions methods stupid.
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I don't think I named names. However, just because someone does something very well, doesn't mean he does everything very well. I would prefer not to argue anyway.

Rick
 
The OP is neck sizing. Low pressure will not expand some necks. Light bullets & slow powder burn rates, long COL, all reduce/lower the pressure curve. This may result in necks that dont expand fully on firing. The loaded rounds neck diameter of .250" show no donut formed. And if there was a donut, it would not matter for the most part in a factory M700 chamber. :D
 
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I don't know what this may mean but I have no other rifle cases that have these vertical ridges on the neck other than these .222 cases. This case was full length sized.

 
The case mouth was not deburred. This may place chips of brass in the sizing dies neck, scratching the brass. Lupua 30-06 brass shown. ANOTHER CAUSE If you get any black "soot" deposits, on you necks, be sure to clean it off before using the full length or neck sizing dies. The "soot" is carbon, the hardest substance on earth. It will scratch dies. Not sure if this RCBS die was subject to carbon, as the marks seem to be inside the neck also?? I have heard of the expander button getting brass on it, causing damage. also?
Lapua30-06brassRCBSDie.jpg
 
That 30-06 case looks much like most of mine. The only thing I know of that will clean the necks is steel wool to get carbon off. some are worse than others in that area but most all have the vertical streaks as shown. I'll take the die apart and clean but I do that after about 20 cawe sizings anyway.

After I resize, I trim and debur the inside and outside of the case.
 
Don't know about forever

alinwa said:
Brass cases can be used "forever" without them weakening in any way, with proper maintenance. And for myself, I never anneal...... unless I'm converting cases for some other use. I would never anneal a string of cases while in use unless I did it every firing. Which I'll never do either ;)

For you, the absolute first thing we need is the measurements I asked for. I feel that I can deduce an answer from that or at least get an answer for the next level of inquiry.

You don't need anything more than a caliper for this. I haven't used a tubing mic for 20yrs.....
al
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Don't know about forever. I have found that 50 cases for a BR barrel will show loosened primer pockets in the 6PPC after about 40 reloads which is when the barrel is due for replacement anyway.
Andy.
 
222cases getting thick

Those streaks show that your not cleaning and lubeing your brass.
That said your case length is fine about .010 short. That leaves two things I suggested in my first post , thick brass or and undersized neck /chamber.
your loads are not excessively hot as to the data you supplied . check the fired cases OD then check your brass with a ball mic at the necks. then we all will know enough to help out.
 
The cases are getting cleaned in a Lyman 1200 Turbo Tumbler with corncob media. I lube the inside of the necks with white powdered graphite prior to running them up in the size die.

Weather permitting, tomorrow I'm headed out to the range and will do some measurements before/after at the range. I have to wonder if some Redding dies and their Competition Shell Holders would at least help part of this situation.

BTW-I ran a new, out of the box Lapua case into the size die and get the same vertical marks.
 
Just thought I'd remention this...

alinwa said:
BTW, the thing you've got wrong could be dangerous..... please take the time to understand what's going on instead of just forging ahead damn the torpedoes and ending up groping about on the floor looking for your retinas.....

We can and will help you find the problem but you must give more information

al
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Times 10 or more.....
 
ColColt said:
The cases are getting cleaned in a Lyman 1200 Turbo Tumbler with corncob media. I lube the inside of the necks with white powdered graphite prior to running them up in the size die.

BTW-I ran a new, out of the box Lapua case into the size die and get the same vertical marks.
Click to expand...

so, you're not putting a sizing lube (Imperial sizing wax, etc.) on the outside of the case?
 
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