22/250ai Verses 220 Swift

Toe to Toe with 220 Swift not my 22-250 AI

I was told by my Barrel maker ( Rock Creek Barrels) that his barrels shoot a little bit faster. Mine with 44grs of W-W 760 pushes a 55gr 3,900+ . Are there many swifts that can do that?.... Also about Neck sizing I have Redding FL dies can I just back the die off a few turns to neck size or do i have to buy a Bushing and new die?:eek:
 
axlenut said:
Them that knows history are better informed and have a depth of knowledge. Them that are ignorant of history are not only bound to repeat it, but are usually dolts incapable of enjoying knowledge for its own sake.

***********If you think smug condescension makes you look clever, then have at it. But I've had the Ackley books since the 80's and even know what's in them. Imagine that. And when people have to be citing what someone else has written, it's because they themselves really don't know what they're talking about. So you and DR4 go right ahead.

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The idea that the .22-250 is a more modern design is truly meaningless

***********Maybe/maybe not. Murphy wanted to know.
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The original thread was two simple questions. Then guys like DR4NRA and zeke and axelnut manage to turn it into a stupid bicker-fest. You gotta wonder who the dolts are.
 
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Ackman

To put this to rest, your statement that your Swift cases grow like wildfire does not mirror my experience. I have shot the Swift since 1963 and I have never had a case growth problem. I used the same RCBS dies for both rifles. Perehaps it is your chamber or perhaps your reloading methods.

I checked my records and equipment and noticed that the cases that I used in the M 70 were trimmed aftere the first firing and never again. I used these same 20 Norma cases for many shots. Oh yes, the load was 39.5 grains of 4064 behind a 55 grain Sierra. This was my deer load that took many whitetails with one shot. My M 70 Swift was built in 1937 with a soft barrel and a serial number of 4xxx

I get upset to hear that the same bad press about the Swift that has been repeated since the inception of the Swift in the late 30's!


I rose to take the bait as an old fool would but enough for now as I have grown weary of attempting to stamp out disinformation and worse yet, misinformation about the Swift. I'll relegate that to the younger truth seekers. You have convinced me that i am fighting an endless fight!

Your name calling and lack of basic skills in English Grammer, convinced me to ignore your future posts Life is just too brief!


Enjoy your opinions,

Zeke
 
1937 Winchester Mod 70 No I don't think so

Zeke They didn't make a Mod 70 way back then it was a Model 54
 
That is one gun I want to own....

....a swift made around 49 or 50. All original but not too mint to take hunting. Man, they are getting expensive!!

pf
 
Zeke

Sounds like you have A very fine piece of history there, and like paul I would love to own a speciman like it, unfortunately they are pricey to say the least if you can find one not shot out or altered.

Alas I have found out that to quote a industry standard reloading manual or factual description of a cartridge is no longer acceptable.

The Swift is basically Dead, with only 3 manufacturers making rounds, and only 2 cataloging a rifle in this caliber, it is destined to go the way of the 17 Rem and other very good rounds for which people gave a bad rap. Its seems that if you dont agree with some on here that name calling and derogatory remarks are the order of the day to further their stance and boost their ego.

Cheetahman, Yes Cooper does chamber for the Swift I have a Mod 22 Montana varminter in that caliber, and as of now Remington is the only other to catalog this caliber in the VSSF II. Excellent info on Ackley well done.

Now to the person who said that history doesnt matter. This year the U.S Supreme Court will rule on whether The 2nd Amendment to the Constitution gives Us the right individually to keep and bears arms will stand. If the court decides that as written, and that according to other historical writtings for the period that the founding fathers actually meant for it to be an individual right, we will be able to keep what we have. But if the more modern gun control version is deemed correct, we will all be relagated to doing nothing more than looking at history. So if history doesnt mean anything to you, lets hope that the court sees in favor of history.
 
Well this is way off

Reports I've heard about the present battle in the highest Court. Is that were kicking butt?
 
DR4NRA said:
Now to the person who said that history doesnt matter. This year the U.S Supreme Court will rule on whether The 2nd Amendment to the Constitution gives Us the right individually to keep and bears arms will stand. If the court decides that as written, and that according to other historical writtings for the period that the founding fathers actually meant for it to be an individual right, we will be able to keep what we have. But if the more modern gun control version is deemed correct, we will all be relagated to doing nothing more than looking at history. So if history doesnt mean anything to you, lets hope that the court sees in favor of history.
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Now an irrelevant unnecessary history lesson about the 22-250 has somehow turned into me saying that history doesn't matter, and led to this. See what I mean.....things keep getting stupider and stupider. It comes real easy for people like this guy.
 
history

Ackman said:
To the original poster Murphy I'll say yes, the AI will at least equal the Swift and yes, it's a more modern case.

To you....your history lessons are unncessary. And all this stuff you like to quote, SO WHAT? Screw your questions, they're irrelevant and you're a bore.
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this is your answer to asking you about the history of the AI vs Swift. Your words not mine.

To argue with ignorance is to lower yourself to their level
 
" Originally Posted by axlenut View Post
Them that knows history are better informed and have a depth of knowledge. Them that are ignorant of history are not only bound to repeat it, but are usually dolts incapable of enjoying knowledge for its own sake.

***********If you think smug condescension makes you look clever, then have at it. But I've had the Ackley books since the 80's and even know what's in them. Imagine that. And when people have to be citing what someone else has written, it's because they themselves really don't know what they're talking about. So you and DR4 go right ahead.

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The idea that the .22-250 is a more modern design is truly meaningless"


Ackman:

The .22-250 Remington and .220 Swift are contemporaries, they both came into existence during the mid-1930's. Their parent cartridges are the .250 Savage (1912) and the 236 Navy (1895). Remington standardized the .22-250 Remington in 1965 for the M700 and 40X (I purchased the latter in that year and just sent it out for rebarreling last week). Winchester chose the 236 Navy (6mm Lee) case over the rimless design for whatever reason. Remember they introduced the .225 Winchester in 1964, also a semi-rimmed case, which lost the popularity battle to he .22-250 Remington. Winchester had a propensity for such things.

To say the .22-250 Remington is more modern than the .220 Swift is meaningless, in that they were born at about the same time. They are simply different head styles and case shapes, chosen for manufacturing and marketing reasons at the time.

The .223 Winchester Super Short Magnum is a more modern design, but appears to be headed for the same obscurity.

I'm glad you have every book Ackley wrote, that is the beginning of a well founded library. Studying the historical record as a means to understanding the origins of things, is scholarship. Scholarship links us with the historical efforts of others, a fellowship of the past if you will, and inspires us to new invention in the future. Experience and knowledge can be perceived as smug condescension, however your anger at the introduction of a historical discussion was inappropriate, invoking my comment. But then us old guys can be a bit cantankerous.
 
axlenut said:
" Originally Posted by axlenut View Post
Them that knows history are better informed and have a depth of knowledge. Them that are ignorant of history are not only bound to repeat it, but are usually dolts incapable of enjoying knowledge for its own sake.

***********If you think smug condescension makes you look clever, then have at it. But I've had the Ackley books since the 80's and even know what's in them. Imagine that. And when people have to be citing what someone else has written, it's because they themselves really don't know what they're talking about. So you and DR4 go right ahead.

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The idea that the .22-250 is a more modern design is truly meaningless"


Ackman:

The .22-250 Remington and .220 Swift are contemporaries, they both came into existence during the mid-1930's. Their parent cartridges are the .250 Savage (1912) and the 236 Navy (1895).

To say the .22-250 Remington is more modern than the .220 Swift is meaningless, in that they were born at about the same time.

********** Parent case is what I'm talking about. The old Lee Navy case has 10* less shoulder angle than even the 250, and was from the late 1800's. The 250 is a more modern case. That's what the original poster asked about. And you're right it's meaningless, so drop it.
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I'm glad you have every book Ackley wrote, that is the beginning of a well founded library.

************** I don't have every book, just those two.

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Studying the historical record as a means to understanding the origins of things, is scholarship. Scholarship links us with the historical efforts of others, a fellowship of the past if you will, and inspires us to new invention in the future. Experience and knowledge can be perceived as smug condescension, however your anger at the introduction of a historical discussion was inappropriate, invoking my comment. But then us old guys can be a bit cantankerous.

*************Oh brother...... "scholarship", all your "experience and knowledge" Blah blah blah....
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Don't throw that stuff on me. I'm as old as you are.
 
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Come on guys......

....they are the same pill.

Let's not have Wilbur upset w/ us the factory forum!!

Peace.

You cannot go wrong w/ either!!

I will be sad if the swift goes away but I have faith that OLD man. Hopefully, they will keep faithful around and no one will make a factory AI so the question has been answered and he can make his decision. Plenty of replies!!

Let this thread die.....

pf
 
Didn't mean To start a range war.

When I put up this thread I was just asking an innocent question. Four pages on every one is getting upset ,so settle down boys. Hope the Swift is not going to disappear as I have just bought one, a Ruger MK2. Came with 300 once fired shells and 3die reloading set, so Long live the Swift I hope. Thanks every one for your comments,can hardly wait to try the thing out. Kindest reguards Murphy.:D
 
One more factor

OK Its just , well its like this. In fact if you stand back and really ? Well what I mean is. Ok let me put it this way.
 
To Worker

:DWorker you have such a way with words,don't you love this forum. Can't stop laughing Murphy.
 
The 22-250AI is just a swift in a better wrapper. The lack of a rim a plus. Same capacity. Better fit in a short action. The case stretching/trimming the Swift has a reputation for totally negated regardless of how hot you want to run.
I get a kick out of those who think fire forming an issue. I loaded a bunch of 50 gr. v-max's up to 3900+ in unfire formed 22-250 cases, sighted her in getting internet pic worthy accuracy and proceeded to shoot 25 woodchucks out of 29, shots out to 500 yards in a couple hours making the turkey vulture's job very easy for them. Oh, the waste of time. Fire forming is a non issue for those in the know/experience if they will ever stray beyond conventional babble.
 
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