Professional Shooting League, Calfee

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Hovis, shooting at ring targets is just fine. I do every day. It is the scoring of them that I am getting at. And yes, there are leagues that shoot string measure. It is simple and easy. And it does solve a problem that does, very definitely exist - low resolution scorability. But apparently, high resolution scoring is not of interest here.

CEP, just found the thread, makes a whole lot of sense! Arguing otherwise, is sort of like arguing that the world if flat or the sun goes around the earth - as anyone with an ounce of common sense can see. You can do that too. A lot of people have. But that didn't make them right.

Brent
 
Brent,
I was talking about scoring with string measurements and still having rings on targets for hold off. If the leagues exist...then why are the people here shooting it? What are the league's and where? And as far as CEP goes...just like I finally let the cat out of the bag in it's thread. But the time you would ever even get half way to gathering the statistical data necessary to be of even remote use for competition....the barrel would be shot out and of no use so you would have to start all over again....thus making it useless in competition where every barrel is different. People do not shoot precision competition just can seem to understand that...at all.

Hovis
 
Hovis, the Wyoming Schuetzen Union, which, despite its name is a national or even international group has string matches. Based in Cody Wyoming, they shoot matches at Raton and other clubs as well. The recently reincarnated National Rifle Club does as well. They hold postal as well as shoulder to shoulder matches.

CEP will SAVE your barrel, not wear it out. Properly used, you get more information per bullet fired than you do with anything else. Its greatest utility is in pre-match evaluation of ammunition, equipment or technique. People that don't understand precision quantitative sciences or engineering just can't seem to grasp that... at all
 
george in KY said:
get out and shoot the PSL target.
it an't broke it don't need a fix ! IT IS as Precision as it needs to be with a plug. ! your just beating your head for nothing.
Click to expand...

dudette, you are oh so right about beating my head. But there are a few lurkers that seem to think otherwise about the "for nothing" part.

Blackpowder flintlocks were once as precision as needed to be too...

Brent
 
Whew..... i been reading this thread from the start and i ain't fired the first shot but i already gotta re barrel, lol.
joe :D
 
BrentD said:
Hovis, the Wyoming Schuetzen Union, which, despite its name is a national or even international group has string matches. Based in Cody Wyoming, they shoot matches at Raton and other clubs as well. The recently reincarnated National Rifle Club does as well. They hold postal as well as shoulder to shoulder matches.

CEP will SAVE your barrel, not wear it out. Properly used, you get more information per bullet fired than you do with anything else. Its greatest utility is in pre-match evaluation of ammunition, equipment or technique. People that don't understand precision quantitative sciences or engineering just can't seem to grasp that... at all
Click to expand...


I really want you to go into detail how CEP will save a barrel. And HOW will it give a person more information than any other way about a load. Especially talking about centerfire which CEP is thought to be of importance. Exactly how long is the cutting edge life of a centerfire barrel? Do you know ??? CEP is just another case of over engineering and quantitive science people who think they can learn everything in life from a book...

Hovis
 
Hov, just reread that thread, and the article. If you still don't get it, go to your local land-grant university and ask to see as statistics-extention person. With luck they will have one. And maybe then you can begin to understand.

Don't knock books, you can learn a think or two from them every so often. This is one of those moments.

Brent
 
BrentD said:
Hov, just reread that thread, and the article. If you still don't get it, go to your local land-grant university and ask to see as statistics-extention person. With luck they will have one. And maybe then you can begin to understand.

Don't knock books, you can learn a think or two from them every so often. This is one of those moments.

Brent
Click to expand...


I know a lot about books. The problem is...you don't know anything about the type of shooting I'm talking about and have no comprehension. I know the article and the problem with CEP is the FACT that it can not take into account the all the variations that happen during a match/load/rifle with temp, humidity, altitude, and it's effect upon load, rifle. What a competitive shooter learns is generalities that can be applied during a match to keep his rifle and equipment in tune. This is due to the FACT that what works one day...will need adjusted upon the very next day no matter what all the data in the world says...even if you have accumulated it for the exact temp/humidity/altitude, etc. That's the difference between real world and statistics. Also, the CEP does not take into account...the variation in the feel of cleaning between matches that can tell a shooter what his load is doing, or the roundness/bullet mark on the target to indicate whether the bullet is at it's premium seating depth for that time of day in that place or the looks of the primer indention and then make load adjustments for the next target or even to change barrels or guns. It can't tell a person that and since it can't....it is of no use in the real BR world.

Brent, I tried to give you some props on the measuring thing but you coming over here and saying what your saying would be like me telling NASCAR what fuel to burn because I think it's better. You should learn some about what your talking about before you jump in the fire.

Like I tried to say on the other thread without spelling it out in A-B-C's ... it's princeples sound good....it's application is what is worthless to those who don't understand.

Hovis
 
Brent, you needd to read all the books you can and then come out and shoot with us. I'm sure we will listen to you when you thump us at our own game.
 
You guys are just so damn friendly - not.

But be that as it may, I do have a pretty good idea of your game. And nothing you've said Hov says anything about the method. But it does speak volumes about your ignorance of critical evaluation.

All that variation in time and place and so forth happens wherever you are shooting whatever you shoot. It is no different for me shooting at 200 yds in a traditional schuetzen match. We do all the same stuff. Worry about all the same things. So, I have a pretty good idea of your game.

You have no clue about quantitative evaluation. Not even a whisp.

But thats okay.

Don,
Do ya happen to be in Iowa by chance? I'd be happy to shoot a money match against you. Just you or Hov here. It would be fun - why not? Damn, now I see you are in Arkansas. Well maybe ol' Hov is game. Let me know.
 
If we're talking RF BR, I"m close enough. Give me a little notice after finishing your reading.
 
Brent

Brent, You not only have managed to offend the benchrest shooters on this forum but also some of us that are members of the Flat Earth Society. I realize you think you are trying to help us but you really need to go to a match before you tell us we don't know how to score a target the RIGHT way. None of the people on this forum have tried to tell you a better way to score your targets at 200 yards, in fact, we don't care how you score your targets. I doubt if you would take it very well if we did try to tell you how to score your game.
 
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My dad always said "You can try and teach a rock all day long but at the end of the day .... all you have is a rock".

Brent...you have no idea what I know.

I'm game for a money shoot against you anytime....if you can get all your books in your car. Come on out to a real BR match and well have a side bet. I catch matches at far west as St. Louis Benchrest Club. There's a match there toward the end of Feb....should be plenty of time to work on your CEP.

Comparing a schuetzen rifle and match to a BR rifle and match is kinda like comparing a horse and buggy to a top fuel dragster...it does matter what you feed it but the similarities end there.

Hovis
 
Hell, if you feel you are close enough then come on up. This weekend if you want. Let's shoot. I'm game.

Hov, the rock is what you see in the mirror when you are brushing your teeth...

I may not know what you know, but I surely know what you don't.

I'm hoping to be at SLBRC 7-8 June, if I'm not in Alaska. We can do a little side match in the evening. Let's try 200 - or is that too scary for ya?
 
Brent,
Maybe...but at least I have something there instead of just air...

I really get a kick out of those who are so stuck on themselves....like you.

St. Louis....27-28 East-West Shootout....registered match. REAL WORLD...Centerfire BR. 100yd-200yd 2-gun

Don't forget your books

Some of these threads really bring a smile to my face...nice to have some slinky's visit every now and then.

thanks for the laugh.
gotta go and solve some real problems

Hovis
 
Hov, you wouldn't know a real problem if you ran into one face first (see the mirror).

But June 7-8. I'll probably be there.

Do you know Michael Fargas? Maybe he would like to join us. I know he is a member of SLBRC and he seems to like money matches. You might check with him.

Brent
 
Can't make it during the week in June (or for most summer weeks due to work) but there's no registered or Br match there on the 7-8 june.....

I didn't figure you wanted to shoot for BR REAL...your ego couldn't take it.

Sure on the money...generally always some side bets going on...

Brent Slinky...I bet you can wipe your a** and nose at the same time...I can throw around childish insults by name also.

I warned you BR guys about these CEP people....didn't I.

Have a nice day...
Hovis
 
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Brent, And YOU call me insulting... Read your posts....


Brent[/QUOTE]

Lew, I see swapping insults seems to be your stock in trade, but tell me, what exactly do you gain by all that? If it makes ya feel bigger, I guess I'm happy to oblige ya, but sure is a strange way to promote a sport.

It's a wonder this sport recruits a new shooter every ten to twenty years.
 
Man, whatever happens, be sure to post the shooting match on you-tube.
I want to see this one.....

(I'm running to the store to grab the popcorn!)
 
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