Professional Shooting League, Calfee

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Husker is right. The distance from the target's center to each bullet hole. It is much better than scoring rings since they are not nearly so finely divided. It is easily done with a calibers and template.

I have no idea what CEP is but I like the sound of "equation".

Seriously, string measures are no different that scoring rings except that bullets are either in or out of a given ring. Whereas string measure discriminates between the shots that are just touching with the leaded edge from bullets that are fully within the ring and everything in between. These distances are added up for all shots on the card and the total is the "string measure".

Yes, low score wins.

I do not shoot benchrest .22 at 50 yds, but from what I read, the differences between winners and also-rans is damn small. When discriminating differences that are tiny, the highest resolution measuring stick is optimal. And string measure accomplishes this, ring scores do not.

scoring plugs have been around since god was a pup and have nothing to do with the value of string measure per se. It is just a better way to measure a target. That is all.
Brent
 
Sounds like it would take a lot of string; make life hell on the scorers.
 
Why and how is that complicated? What's simpler than measuring a straight line? If that's complicated, what's tyin' your shoes like in the morning... :D

Heck, if you don't want to use an accurate and precise means of scoring, so be it, But to be sure, in the Pro's I should think they would like to do it right, rather than do it expediently.

Brent
 
Tying my shoes is pretty tough. It may not be complicated, just a lot of work. You still have to determine the edge of the bullet hole which means plug. Then you have to measure. Three relays would take a day and a half.
 
Well, if shoe tying is a lot of work, then I guess it is too much.

Having tied my own shoes this morning and having scored targets like this myself, I find it little trouble. For a pro league, I would accept nothing less than the best.

The blue target as I printed it, does not even have uniform diameter to it's rings. I don't know what the rings' values are, but I would think they should, at least, be the same thickness.

If the rings are, for instance, 0.1" wide, then scoring rings is the equivalent of using a ruler graduated in only 0.1" increments. Pretty crude relative to a modern, every day set of calipers that measures to 0.0005" with repeatability.

Brent
 
Lets not discuss string.

BrentD said:
During the era when professional shooting was a major sport, the preferred measure of accuracy was string measure. Any reason why one would not use this for a professional tour event?

It is, w/o question the most discriminating measure of accuracy and precision.

Brent
Click to expand...

With all due respect....PSL has been formed, the target exists, the rules and scoring are set....a schedule exists..its ready to roll....it will be good....no string involved.

Over.

Next

Charlie
 
Well, that there ya go. But if you ever want to improve the league, that would be a good way to do it. Rules can always be changed for better, and in this case, older, rules.

Brent
 
String measure might work for 100 yd. RF BR, but....

When you measure the distance between the POA and the POI, you can see the bullet hole(POI), but with any luck at all the POA is not there anymore. Doesn't sound so simple for 50 yd. BR.

Jim
 
Actually, that is quite easy using an over or underlay. And it would certainly be necessary for 50 yd bench rest. Heck we use one with 200 yd matches.

Brent
 
BrentD said:
Well, if shoe tying is a lot of work, then I guess it is too much.

Having tied my own shoes this morning and having scored targets like this myself, I find it little trouble. For a pro league, I would accept nothing less than the best.

The blue target as I printed it, does not even have uniform diameter to it's rings. I don't know what the rings' values are, but I would think they should, at least, be the same thickness.

If the rings are, for instance, 0.1" wide, then scoring rings is the equivalent of using a ruler graduated in only 0.1" increments. Pretty crude relative to a modern, every day set of calipers that measures to 0.0005" with repeatability.

Brent
Click to expand...
Have you ever shot rimfire benchrest for score? You don't seem to know much about it or how it is scored.
 
Nope, not at 50 yds anyway. I did say that earlier, but you must have missed it. Almost all the .22 benchrest that I compete in is shoot at 200 yds.

But that is rather irrelevant to determining the most accurate way of identifying the most accurate shooter, isn't it?
 
george in KY said:
RIMFIRE 22lr at 200 yards !!.....LOL thats more luck than skill :eek:
Click to expand...

Not at all. Luck that is. It's all about the shooter's skill. If you think you can read wind flags try it sometime. Pretty fun watching the bullet drop into the bull at 200. You can watch is for the last half of the flight.

It is not much different than shooting 1000 yds Creedmoor matches as they were shot back in the day. The scaling is about the same.

Brent
 
Did I miss something. How do we go from 50yd score to 200yd group and how its similar to 1000yd creedmor shooting. 22 rimfire fire score is what was being discussed and it goes to 1000yds. Are some posters getting the Bill Calfee syndrome of posting. ...... I'm very confused.....
 
BrentD,

I am not sure why your target printed out with different size rings, but the 25 different bulls on the official target are all identical.

I do not understand how the string measuring works. Please explain the overlay to me.
 
I dunno Lew. Some folks let discussions wander a bit. Staying on the railroad tracks can result in missing a lot of pretty country.

I sure would like to see Bill Calfee's discussions wander a bit more. He's the whole reason I enjoy following this site. Been trying to learn more about what makes for accurate .22s that can be applied to other types of rifles. Learned a lot. Would like to learn more, since I can't seem to get Bill to consider building a singleshot .22 on a Win 85 or Ballard action. :)

Anyway, pretty interesting, this pro league. I would like to see it happen if only to watch what the best technology can do. Would be even more interesting to see it perform at longer distances, but maybe that will come if this catches on.

Brent
 
Dan, I found all the targets on the sheet were the same but the outer blue ring measures about 1.8 millimeters (I don't have calipers handy, just a metric ruler) and the white ring measures about 2.1 mm wide, and the central dot about 0.75 mm in diameter. Hard to be accurate with my ruler here, but anyway, it is clear that the thicknesses of the rings differ, and the dot is way different.

String measure is simply the sum of the distances of all shots from the point of aim to the point of impact.

If someone takes out the center of the bull - the pin dot in this case, you need a template of some sort to find the location of the original center. Most of the time, an acetate overlay of original target is used. The overlay aligns with other marks on the target and locates the center that is now missing so you can make your measure.

Brent
 
Let's see if I can give you an example.

Here are two shooters on the same bull. Red vs. Yellow. Which shooter is the more accurate?

BTW, neither of those yellow bullet holes touch the inner white circle, but my screen does not have enough resolution to show that.

Which has the lowest string score (best score), and which has the highest ring score?

Example%20target.jpg
 
Hey Dan:

You got a good thing going.. Don't let this thread get hi-jacked into changing what you have started.. If the P.S.L doesn't work, then after a year look at some possible changes.. On this forum, everybody has a better plan, however no one wants to be the first to start a new organization, but everyone will tell you how to make yours better.....:rolleyes:


Keep up the good work..



Dave
 
BrentD said:
Let's see if I can give you an example.

Here are two shooters on the same bull. Red vs. Yellow. Which shooter is the more accurate?

BTW, neither of those yellow bullet holes touch the inner white circle, but my screen does not have enough resolution to show that.

Which has the lowest string score (best score), and which has the highest ring score?

Example%20target.jpg
Click to expand...

How does this pertain to a score target? We shoot one shot at each bullseye.
 
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