Post #112. I'm assuming you read it-you responded to it.
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Post #112. I'm assuming you read it-you responded to it.
Joe, don't know where you see IBS groups measured 3 times but it don't happen, not anywhere around here anyways, and that includes IBS Nationals.
For score we've begun using the new multi-reticle scoring tool but in some of the .22 games lik IR50 we're still at the mercy of paper that's less than ideal.
J
Joe Haller
Guest
Tim:
Here at our club we started using the Sweeny Reticlue Rule in 1967. We found that a person with experience can take three measurements on a group and have a variance as much as .003" to .007". A new person just learning can have three measurements much greater than that. We also found that if we used two or more scorers, the group measurements varied widely.
We never ran sanctioned IBS matches, just NBRSA. And: We don't run those matches any more. Takes a lot of work to set up moving backers and change targets every 5 shots. Once a volunteer scored a tournament, it was hard to get him to do it again.
Group shooting is Precision shooting. Score shooting is Accuracy shooting. Most on this board know the difference. And, I would guess that most who have worked both would tell you that running score matches is a lot easier. When you have scored both ways, you get to realize that you can discriminate a difference of .001" with the rim of a scoring gauge near a scoring ring. It is very difficult to get repeatable measurements on 5 or 10 shot groups (or string measurements) any where near that level of repeatability.
Tim: I have read about this new IBS multireticle scoring tool, but no one has described how it works or posted a picture of it. Can you give us more information on it?
Joe
Here at our club we started using the Sweeny Reticlue Rule in 1967. We found that a person with experience can take three measurements on a group and have a variance as much as .003" to .007". A new person just learning can have three measurements much greater than that. We also found that if we used two or more scorers, the group measurements varied widely.
We never ran sanctioned IBS matches, just NBRSA. And: We don't run those matches any more. Takes a lot of work to set up moving backers and change targets every 5 shots. Once a volunteer scored a tournament, it was hard to get him to do it again.
Group shooting is Precision shooting. Score shooting is Accuracy shooting. Most on this board know the difference. And, I would guess that most who have worked both would tell you that running score matches is a lot easier. When you have scored both ways, you get to realize that you can discriminate a difference of .001" with the rim of a scoring gauge near a scoring ring. It is very difficult to get repeatable measurements on 5 or 10 shot groups (or string measurements) any where near that level of repeatability.
Tim: I have read about this new IBS multireticle scoring tool, but no one has described how it works or posted a picture of it. Can you give us more information on it?
Joe
H
hulk
Guest
Slap my knuckles
Vibe,
I guess that means no more CTN for 2 weeks.
The colon at the end of the sentence was the tip off that a list of points were coming up. In the context of this thread, quotes were indeed the correct "assumption". I doubt most readers, outside of yourself, "assumed" the need to place quotation marks around statements that were obviously taken from this particular thread. If my use had been as a reference or for expert standing, neither of which applies in this case, I would have used quotation marks, just for you.
In the course of my reading through all of these messages, the "original intended purpose" appears to change from informational to argumentative. None of what I read appears to be "defensive", the same points were simply repeated. People that have a style that resembles debate seem to focus on logic, therefore, attempting to sway opinion, "changing" opinion. After making your best points a few times without success might be your signal to find a different audience. But then again, those of us suffering from "ignorance" could be wrong.
Vibe,
I guess that means no more CTN for 2 weeks.
The colon at the end of the sentence was the tip off that a list of points were coming up. In the context of this thread, quotes were indeed the correct "assumption". I doubt most readers, outside of yourself, "assumed" the need to place quotation marks around statements that were obviously taken from this particular thread. If my use had been as a reference or for expert standing, neither of which applies in this case, I would have used quotation marks, just for you.
In the course of my reading through all of these messages, the "original intended purpose" appears to change from informational to argumentative. None of what I read appears to be "defensive", the same points were simply repeated. People that have a style that resembles debate seem to focus on logic, therefore, attempting to sway opinion, "changing" opinion. After making your best points a few times without success might be your signal to find a different audience. But then again, those of us suffering from "ignorance" could be wrong.
Joe, I just saw the tool for the first time a couple weeks ago since we shoot 3 score matches before the regular 100/200 group winter leagues at Camillus and Canastota. It is, essentially a multiple caliber set of reticles etched in a magnifier that you place over the hole, in or out, X or not, seems easier than a plug.
The group matches no doubt require a herculean effort with infrastructure and scoring. For so many years we were so fortunate to have Michelle Sutton for IBS group shoot scoring and there was none better, especially if you ever got a little "smiley face" on a small group. On tough round groups, they'd be checked one angle or the other but always only one measurement. She was damn good too, how would you like to do 4 Aggs over 2 days for 40-50 shooters.
P.S. Brent would also have helped if he'd have mentioned what to do when, as often as not, somebody shoots the center out of a target.
The group matches no doubt require a herculean effort with infrastructure and scoring. For so many years we were so fortunate to have Michelle Sutton for IBS group shoot scoring and there was none better, especially if you ever got a little "smiley face" on a small group. On tough round groups, they'd be checked one angle or the other but always only one measurement. She was damn good too, how would you like to do 4 Aggs over 2 days for 40-50 shooters.
P.S. Brent would also have helped if he'd have mentioned what to do when, as often as not, somebody shoots the center out of a target.
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