New Digital headspace gauge

I noted, measured and gaged from Larry's write up on his new "TOOL" that different shoulder angles worked just fine.

I can't imagine there is anybody reading these forums that doesn't have more than a few ctgs we shoot that have non-standard ctgs because of shoulder angles. Larry's new "TOOL" solves this problem, of gaging, measuring, wild a$$ guessing with out having to hunt up the special tool you made or had made for the job.

I could do with out the DRO (needs a battery) and would be happy to use one of my own dial indicators laying around the shop. I can't think of more than a few that hardly gets any use any way.
 
I'm sure we can get real technical and find different names for almost any new product. I've used my Digital Headspace Gauge for quite a while, and as you see it has several different purposes. The main benefit to me is when I zero the device on the shoulder of a fireformed case, then take a "measurement" on one of my resized handloads. The digital display shows the exact headspace "clearance" that my handloads have in my particular chamber. To me .... that's exactly what I need to set my die height perfectly. I could care less about what my actual case measures. I just want to know how it will fit in MY chamber.

Most of us know that bumping the shellholder against your resizing die will usually give you way more clearance than you want. Most shooters are surprised when they see "how much" clearance there actually is. (This is especially true with belted and rimmed cases, because factory loads never headspace this ammo on the shoulder - not even close.) It's important to understand that ALL chambers are slightly different, and ALL resizing dies are also slightly different. Most of us want our handloads to fit our chamber as close as possible, without requiring pressure when closing the bolt. That's why I measure the "headspace clearance".

I don't know if Webster was a shooter or not ..... but headspace to me means "space" between the "head" and the breach. Measuring this chamber "clearance" at either end of the case will be exactly the same.

- Innovative
 
Larry Willis said:
I'm sure we can get real technical and find different names for almost any new product. I've used my Digital Headspace Gauge for quite a while, and as you see it has several different purposes. The main benefit to me is when I zero the device on the shoulder of a fireformed case, then take a "measurement" on one of my resized handloads. The digital display shows the exact headspace "clearance" that my handloads have in my particular chamber. To me .... that's exactly what I need to set my die height perfectly. I could care less about what my actual case measures. I just want to know how it will fit in MY chamber.

Most of us know that bumping the shellholder against your resizing die will usually give you way more clearance than you want. Most shooters are surprised when they see "how much" clearance there actually is. (This is especially true with belted and rimmed cases, because factory loads never headspace this ammo on the shoulder - not even close.) It's important to understand that ALL chambers are slightly different, and ALL resizing dies are also slightly different. Most of us want our handloads to fit our chamber as close as possible, without requiring pressure when closing the bolt. That's why I measure the "headspace clearance".

I don't know if Webster was a shooter or not ..... but headspace to me means "space" between the "head" and the breach. Measuring this chamber "clearance" at either end of the case will be exactly the same.

- Innovative
Click to expand...

I think you have a neat tool here.

I also think you should stop referring to head space clearance and call it what it really is - head clearance.

Head space has to do with the chamber of the rifle.
Head clearance has to do with how a cartridge fits in that chamber.

Anything to do with the words ''head'' and ''space'' when used together concern the measurement chamber of the rifle, not the measurement of the cartridge.

It seems to be a point you have not grasped. I side with Mike in Co on this. Terminology is important. If we don't use it correctly it will be lost to the younger people coming into guns and reloading.

.
 
I have the same opinion as some others here. It's a neat tool but I don't see how it would help setting the headspace during the rifle building process in the least bit.
 
Shiraz Balolia said:
Looks like Sinclair uses the same terminology.
Click to expand...

Yeah.. it is unfortunate that Stoney Point and Hornady misuse the terminology. This is a good example of how the meanings are lost when words are used incorrectly.
 
Actually, I do like the name Digital Headspace Clearance Gauge , but it's too late now. I agree that it is a more complete description. I could have also called it the Universal Digital Headspace Clearance Gauge. Naaah, I think most shooters will get the idea.

Most shooters are impressed when they see that no expense was spared in making them. The base, mounting fixture and the adjustable v-block are all CNC machined from 6061 aluminum - then plated. The base is machined from a solid block, and the vertical shaft is precision ground stainless steel. The gauge has a half size 5th digit, that rounds off to the nearest half of a thousandth. Not bad for $89.95 Take a closer look at www.larrywillis.com and notice the Tech Tips section. (About a jillion hours of reading for free.)

- Innovative
 
Reading some of the replies to this thread makes a fellow feel the need for wearing a tin foil hat.

I still feel that all of this strain to swallow a knat over terminology does in noway detract from Larry's new tool.
 
Larry you keep writing ''headspace'' clearance when it is actually ''head'' clearance you are referring to.

Do you really not understand the difference, or does it just not matter to you? :confused:
 
Dennis ......

Read the first sentence of my last post.


- Innovative
 
Donald said:
Gonna be a long winter:)
Click to expand...


yes it is... :D

But it is never too late to correct a mistake... but I can't even get Larry to write ''head clearance'' within this thread... the "space" is always there...:)
 
"I don't know if Webster was a shooter or not ..... but headspace to me means "space" between the "head" and the breach. Measuring this chamber "clearance" at either end of the case will be exactly the same."

no but SAAMI IS THE INDUSTRY STANDARD. THEY HAVE A DEFINITION. IT IS NOT YOURS, YOURS ONLY APPLIES TO RIMMED CARTRIDGES.
SINCE YOU ARE A MANUFACTURE TO THE INDUSTRY, IT WOULD BENEFIT THE INDUSTRY IF YOU USED THE CORRECT TERMINOLOGY. IT WOULD BE NICE IF YOU WOULD BE WILLING TO LEARN AS YOU EARN.

mike in co
 
How about this? ........ If you can get Hornady to rename his product ...... I promise to rename mine. Is that fair enough?

- Innovative
 
Words can be misused to the point that the common understanding of their meaning is in effect corrupted. In the case of "headspace" I think that this is what has happened. It doesn't bother me to switch to head clearance when referring to a cartridge, but I am not sure that my audience will understand what I am talking about, unless I include an explanation. Maybe we should start using footnoting our posts.:D I won't be holding my breath till that happens.
 
Headspace, Headclearance, Headache.

Benchrest Shooters nare the worlds worst when it comes to missusing these terms. The other night, I chambered a barrel for a friend, and after installing the barrel, I placed a piece of .002 paper between the headspace gage and the bolt face, and it had a tad of "feel", and I said "you have about .002 headspace". What I should have said was, 'you have about .002 headclearance".

Now, if I would have worked off of a SAMMI print, and did actually establish the correct dimension from the bolt face to that point on the shoulder where the actual dimension is taken, I suppose I could have used the term "headspace". Or maybe not.:rolleyes:

I am going to make a point of it from now on at matches, when someone says to me, ""how much I am bumping my shoulders", I will say, "it has about .001 headclearance", not "headspace"...........jackie

Anyway Larry, neat tool.
 
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Larry Willis said:
How about this? ........ If you can get Hornady to rename his product ...... I promise to rename mine. Is that fair enough?

- Innovative
Click to expand...

very funny...but they bought the company/product and all....

and the improper name was already in place, as did sinclaire

for the record, i pointed out to forester that they had non standard
language in thier advertising..on thier site of all places....no reply.

the bottom line is that continued poor terminology degrades the technical portion of our sport.

why not take the stance that you will step up to the plate, and ask the others to FOLLOW you.

mike in co
 
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Donald said:
Gonna be a long winter:)
Click to expand...


It all ready is a long winter and it's just started.

I see the holes on both side of this argument. Let me point out that as long as you have and extractor that is holding the base of the ctg against the bolt face by a few of the respondents to this thread you have no headspace. I did this once in a match at Camp Perry, had a National guardsman hand me and eighth round Garand clip loaded with eight rounds of 7.62 NATO NM ammo. I shot all eight rounds in my National Match M-1 Garand. All blew the shoulder and the necks straight out they looked like rimless .410 shot shells.

When you fit the chambers and measure for headspace you have the extractor removed, why? so for headspace where do you measure from, on all ctgs you measure from the base to some point forward, be it some point as in a rimless or rimmed. Belted cases are better off if they are ignored, measuring from the belt, except for the belt clearance.

Support the rim or the rimless case with and extractor and it's a different ball game, don't think so? Blow and extractor on one of these SAKO extractor rifles and see the difference on the shoulder length from the base of the case. That is of course if it will even fire.

Maybe the failure with our terminology fails when we do not reference to exactly what we are talking about.
:D
 
At first glance, it would seem that Larry's tool is not a headspace gage. However, I believe that if he were to complete the other half of his innovative design, then it would be.

If I were him, I would consider it a work in progress.

longshooter
 
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