New Digital headspace gauge

It must be a very cold winter up north ..... too much time on your hands. I remember those long snowy winters (cabin fever), and now I'm glad to be in Florida. Haven't seen snow in almost 30 years, and I don't miss the stuff one bit.


Boyd Allen ....... You're 100% correct. The vast majority of shooters vaguely understand the word "headspace," and that's who Hornady (and Innovative Technologies) are marketing to.

jackie schmidt ....... I agree. The term headspace is usually understood by most shooters to mean the space at the head. However, it is more correct to use the term head clearance.

mike in co ........ Yeah, I should just try to convince a major company like Hornady to follow my lead and rename their product. Ha Ha That's funny.

Longshooter ....... The cartridge drawings in reloading manuals are leading most shooters to try and understand why they need to know this measurement to the datum point on the case shoulder, and how to measure it. Well, they don't need it, unless they're going to design a chamber reamer. The more relevant dimension for handloaders is head clearance, and that's exactly what our gauge measures.

We just made a far better tool than the Hornady Headspace Gauge. It does the job quicker and easier, it requires no bushings, and it has to compete with the product they're advertising.

- Innovative
 
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Ethics? If someone purchases a comparator post stand with an attached 'V' gap gage thinking they are getting a head space gage should be eligible for a refund + shipping. Innovative has been told his gage is a case comparator, he insist on leading customers to believe they are getting a head space gage.

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA=625-8525&PMPXNO=949835&PARTPG=INLMK3

Gages/head space and the removal of the extractor (then the part) where no one else understands but the self appointed few, for me, I do not understand why someone wants a go- gage, no go-gage or a field gage, this forum is the perfect reason, There is absolutely no reason for removing the extractor, there is a reason for removing the extractor when using SOME gages, but those gages had different purposes AND some DID NOT have an en extractor groove, a better reason for removing the extractor is to prevent the extractor from pushing the gage to the left when the gage looses the support of the bolt when the bolt is rotated into the locking position, and it has nothing to do with feel.

To own a gage with out a clue as how it is used, back to removing the extractor, the go-gage is used to determine if the chamber is long enough from the bolt face to it's shoulder to chamber a case that is sized to minimum length or commercial ammo, the go gage does not check/measure head space. Then there is the no-gage gage, the no go-gage is not a head space gage that measures head space, it is an accept or reject gage it measures the chamber from the bolt face to the shoulder of it's chamber, after using either of both the head space of the chamber is not known, if the bolt closes on a go-gage the chamber length from the bolt face to the chamber could be from .006 longer from the bolt face to it's shoulder than the distance from the head of the case to it's shoulder to infinity, or as in the case of Hatcher when he tested a theory that head space caused case head separation, he moved the shoulder of the chamber forward .125 and discovered fire forming, when removed after firing he had cases that were 30/06 + .125 or 30/06 Hatcher (modified), something between the 30 Gibbs and the 30/06.

Hatcher's 30/06 modified chamber with the shoulder moved forward .125 would allow the bolt to close on a go-gage, no go-gage and a field gage, so in all that I have read on this forum no one here is measuring head space. I have said I can build a go-gage? that would eliminate the no-gage and the field gage.

Back to the post comparator stand and only the self appointed understanding. Why fire first then determine the effect the chamber has on the case? Again measuring the effect the length of the chamber has on the case after firing satisfies a curiosity with an expensive tool. If a case is formed first, the head space is know before firing, then the person operating the press, die and shell holder is in charge of the effect the case length has on the chamber length without expensive tools, meaning, a dimension can be transferred from the chamber to the press and back to the chamber with good equipment and the 'COMPANION TOOL' to the press, the feeler gage, $11.00 for a machinist feeler gage, beware of those pushing mechanics feeler gages, the mechanics feeler gage starts at .010 or does not have all the leafs between .001 and .010.

I do not have (use) a press, shell holder or die that does not full length size to minimum length when adjusted for full length sizing, to satisfy a curiosity after sizing I measure the effect the case will have on head space with an improved compartor made from miscellaneous 'junk' and old tools, I shoot bullets not gages.

F. Guffey
 
My god

What an example of "no good deed goes unpunished".

Now if we could just educate/correct all those people who call a magazine a "clip". :D
 
Headspace, shoulder bump, cartridge gap, etc.

Who really cares what you call this thing? Everyone knows what its for and how to use it. Call it a yellow pony or a tailpipe or whatever suits you. The bottom line is the guy came up with a good product, reasonably priced that will enhance the accuracy quest.

Lou Baccino
 
chino69 said:
Who really cares what you call this thing? Everyone knows what its for and how to use it. Call it a yellow pony or a tailpipe or whatever suits you. The bottom line is the guy came up with a good product, reasonably priced that will enhance the accuracy quest.

Lou Baccino
Click to expand...

It is a great product but there is a flaw in the name... just as there is a flaw in the name of the other similar products.

I know many do not care about correct terminology but if the terminology is lost, all you are doing is creating ignorance, not intelligence.

The same goes for the use of the word 'clip' when it should be called a 'magazine' or a 'detachable magazine.' If the word 'clip' becomes acceptable for the word 'magazine', then what word do we use in place of 'clip' when describing a 'clip' (which is not a magazine). Some will probably read this post and not know what I am talking about... the ignorance of this is already set in many.

Using 'head space' when it is actually 'head clearance' will do the same. When the incorrect words are used to describe one thing, how do you then describe the thing you have taken those words from...? You are just creating more ignorance for new comers... :)
 
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Dennis .....

I figured that Hornady's "headspace gauge" is well recognized, and shooters have become very familiar with their gizmo. I prefer a gauge that doesn't require special bushings or rods or other extra measuring tools. I also like the idea that our Digital Headspace Gauge is not limited to one or two calibers, and our Digital headspace Gauge doesn't need to balance cases on the blade of calipers. That seems like good reasons to make this item available. I don't want to change the whole industry by myself, so I'll stick with Hornady's terminology.

- Innovative
 
Correct name

Dennis Sorensen said:
It is a great product but there is a flaw in the name... just as there is a flaw in the name of the other similar products.

I know many do not care about correct terminology but if the terminology is lost, all you are doing is creating ignorance, not intelligence.
Click to expand...

Dennis,
After reading all the replies I can understand where some may not understand the correct use of this tool based on the name. Looking at the picture, it is apparent what the tool is used for. I'll probably buy one after the holidays.

Lou Baccino
 
Gizmo

Larry Willis said:
Dennis .....

I figured that Hornady's "headspace gauge" is well recognized, and shooters have become very familiar with their gizmo. I prefer a gauge that doesn't require special bushings or rods or other extra measuring tools. I also like the idea that our Digital Headspace Gauge is not limited to one or two calibers, and our Digital headspace Gauge doesn't need to balance cases on the blade of calipers. That seems like good reasons to make this item available. I don't want to change the whole industry by myself, so I'll stick with Hornady's terminology.

- Innovative
Click to expand...

Larry,
You have a good product reasonably priced. I'll probably buy one after the holidays.

Lou Baccino
 
Wonder what other tools are mis-named, or might have better descriptive names?

"Monkey Wrench" is about the only one that comes to mind at present, of course that term is probably used more often as a description of a "state of affairs" than a tool "handle".

Then there is the proverbial "Crescent Wrench", why that was not named "Knuckle Buster" is beyond me.................Don
 
Don said:
Wonder what other tools are mis-named, or might have better descriptive names?

"Monkey Wrench" is about the only one that comes to mind at present, of course that term is probably used more often as a description of a "state of affairs" than a tool "handle".

Then there is the proverbial "Crescent Wrench", why that was not named "Knuckle Buster" is beyond me.................Don
Click to expand...

That handy tool, the "monkey-wrench", is not so named because it is a handy thing to monkey with, or for any kindred reason. "Monkey" is not its name at all, but "Moncky." Charles Moncky, the inventor of it, sold his patent for $2000.

The adjustable end wrench differs from the monkey wrench in that the gripping faces of the jaws are displaced to a (typically) 15 degree angle relative to the tool's handle, a design feature that facilitates the wrench's use in close quarters.
The modern adjustable end wrench was first developed by Johansson (with Bahco) or by the Crescent Tool and Horseshoe Company, and is often referred to as a "Crescent wrench", regardless of the actual manufacturer...
 
Dennis Sorensen said:
That handy tool, the "monkey-wrench", is not so named because it is a handy thing to monkey with, or for any kindred reason. "Monkey" is not its name at all, but "Moncky." Charles Moncky, the inventor of it, sold his patent for $2000.

The adjustable end wrench differs from the monkey wrench in that the gripping faces of the jaws are displaced to a (typically) 15 degree angle relative to the tool's handle, a design feature that facilitates the wrench's use in close quarters.
The modern adjustable end wrench was first developed by Johansson (with Bahco) or by the Crescent Tool and Horseshoe Company, and is often referred to as a "Crescent wrench", regardless of the actual manufacturer...
Click to expand...


Dennis, if some college ever decides to offer a curriculum on the "History and Names of Tools", I will nominate you for the department head job.

I know so little in comparison.........Don
 
Don ......

Just google it, and you'll probably come up with the same thing.

- Innovative
 
Geez guys, we know what it is for and it is a neat tool. I don't think anybody that buys it will expect anything else than what it is for.
Dennis, what are water pump pliers?
Butch
 
Don said:
Then there is the proverbial "Crescent Wrench", why that was not named "Knuckle Buster" is beyond me.................Don
Click to expand...

interesting aside....

I was arguing with my Dad the other day about how worthless the Crescent Wrench is (knuckle buster) and he told me "that's because you use it backwards. It'll never slip if you turn it over......."

He was right.

Use the crescent wrench "backwards" so that the displacing force is a the ROOT of the sliding jaw and violahh!! No more slippage!

duhhh

(teach me to argue with me Dad....)

al
 
confused

I am confused, is this a benchrest rifle forum or a benchrested rifle forum?.:D
 
alinwa said:
interesting aside....

I was arguing with my Dad the other day about how worthless the Crescent Wrench is (knuckle buster) and he told me "that's because you use it backwards. It'll never slip if you turn it over......."

He was right.

Use the crescent wrench "backwards" so that the displacing force is a the ROOT of the sliding jaw and violahh!! No more slippage!

duhhh

(teach me to argue with me Dad....)

al
Click to expand...

I dont know Al, Ive been able to bust my knuckles both tightening and loosening nuts with a "Crescent Wrench" in the same orientation, seemed to have more to do with the inevitable slop in the jaws/screw mechanism design..................Don
 
From the look of these posts, most of you guys must be snowed in real bad. I've heard that cabin fever can be pretty bad up north.

- Innovative
 
Well Heck

Anybody ever heard of a "Stillson Wrench"

That is what the generation just before ours called what we know as a "Pipe Wrench". I still call it that.

And, don't come down too hard on Cresent Wrenches. If you took them, and their bastard cousin the "channel locks" away from men in shipyards, no work would ever get done............jackie
 
COAD-06SM.jpg


How do you operate this thing?
You put in a headspace go gauge to zero it?
Do you dial in the screws on a pin gauge of the shoulder datum diameter?
How does the Aluminum plate keep from tipping, and making a big error?

I put a Sinclair bullet comparator [with a big hole up] on the granite surface plate, and zero a height gauge on a go gauge. I then measure "the effect the rifle headspace has on my brass".
A ring on the brass locates on the large bullet ogive hole. This is the wrong datum, but if the shoulder is consistent slope e.g. 40 degrees, it should give an indication relative to the go gauge.
This is not an easy measurement.
The shoulder may fit nicely in the correct taper [as a collet] but it is very tipsy with only a ring of support.
The measurement becomes dependent on the flat bottom of the height gauge stylus to hold the case plumb.
I can't see how Larry's design has solved this problem.
Help me out here.
 
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