You'll just have to break out your 6ppc if you want to see sub .25 MOA accuracy
- Thread starter Hunter
- Start date
Pete Wass
Well-known member
The biggest problem with shooting Benchrest Rifles a lot is the so called "Fctory Rifle" becomes frustrating and, to me, un-interesting. I don't like shooting just to shoot. Guns, to me now, are tools for Accuracy. I never shoot unless I am trying to find better accuracy.
The fellow who cleans my furnace was a big hit with me yesterday telling me he met a fellow who competes with a 30 Cal rifle. I asked the fellows name and he told me. No a name I had ever heard of, of course. He went on to say the rifle was a re-built something or other in 338 Lapua
. Said his friend could realllly reach out and touch them now . Conversations like that one are always short for me and did I say something about un-interesting?
Now, that said, I helped run a Cooper Shoot last summer and will again this year. I'm here to tell ya that there are SOME, so-called Factory rifles out there that DO shoot VERY WELL. Not all of them shoot Very Well but I have seen a few Coopers that are .25" easily. Even some of the RF guns are quite amazing. I guess the question is, how many of them does a lad have to go through to get one of the good ones?
The fellow who cleans my furnace was a big hit with me yesterday telling me he met a fellow who competes with a 30 Cal rifle. I asked the fellows name and he told me. No a name I had ever heard of, of course. He went on to say the rifle was a re-built something or other in 338 Lapua
. Said his friend could realllly reach out and touch them now . Conversations like that one are always short for me and did I say something about un-interesting?Now, that said, I helped run a Cooper Shoot last summer and will again this year. I'm here to tell ya that there are SOME, so-called Factory rifles out there that DO shoot VERY WELL. Not all of them shoot Very Well but I have seen a few Coopers that are .25" easily. Even some of the RF guns are quite amazing. I guess the question is, how many of them does a lad have to go through to get one of the good ones?
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goodgrouper
tryingtobeabettergrouper
Ray, my bad, my original question may have been ambigious; Maybe I shouldn't have asked the question.
No, not at all Hunter! Your question was a good one. The reason why it went straight over some heads like a scud out of Baghdad was because they thought of it out of context. When I told Vani about 100 yard accuracy, I meant you have to quit frustrating yourself with getting long range deer rifles to shoot bugholes at 100 yards, and instead, use a gun that is meant specifically for that purpose---like the 6ppc. Then the terminology got confused about 1/4 moa capable rifles and sustainable 1/4 moa rifles which obviously are two different things. Being that I'm an active Benchrest competitor and I use a 6ppc for that, and I was talking originally to somebody who I thought was also the same, my comments were automatically thought of from the standpoint of state of the art equipment and "normal" usage of that for our game. And in that frame of reference, if you have a 6ppc that is shooting "something not even close to 1/4 moa", then you have a serious problem. But for a factory gun, that may be all she's gonna give you.
Sometimes, when working with other guns at 100 yards that are built for other purposes , I catch myself expecting 1/4" groups and I have to back off and remind myself that these ain't BR 6ppc's. 1/2" to 5/8" groups look awful big when you're used to 1/4" or 1/8" groups! But then you remember that 1/2" from a big booming elk rifle is pretty dang good and beats most semi-custom gun builder's accuracy guarantees. So I guess the point is, expect results relative to what you're using.
Hunter
Chasin' the Sunset
Thanks for the heads-up; I checked and saw several that I didn't know were there. Thanks to each of you who shared information via a PM, and to those of you who shared comments above. I look forward to trying the suggested steps, in hopes of one day stumbling into the realm of the quarter-inch group -- at least once.
Pete Wass
Well-known member
Thanks for the heads-up; I checked and saw several that I didn't know were there. Thanks to each of you who shared information via a PM, and to those of you who shared comments above. I look forward to trying the suggested steps, in hopes of one day stumbling into the realm of the quarter-inch group -- at least once.
It's quite easy to do, actually. Find a good low cost 6PPC bench gun.The're out there. Don't shoot the barrel out just because it shoots good.
Now I've had conversations with a lot of Hunters who say their rifles shoot 1/4 MOA or better in the wind and all the way out to 1000yds...........they never show up at a competition to prove it though. Saying that I have a couple Coopers that will shoot 1/4" 5 shot groups, not all the time though, and I've seen a few Sakos attain that as well..........Ian
Dick Grosbier
Club Coordinator
Depends on the individual rifle, in most cases I would say no. Particularly if you rule out the $1000+ semi custom "FACTORY" rifles.
Dick
Cooper varmint, no modifications (haven't even lightened the trigger from its current setting of ~ 2 lbs); shooting 28 gr of N133 in Lapua brass w/ 62 gr custom bullets, seated out to where just a smidgen is in the neck; using bean bags (front and rear) and a Weaver 36 scope, and watching wind flags. Load obtained from prior gun owner. I don't know how he arrived at that load; however, I saw him shoot a 493-9x with that load. My only score shoot resulted in a 486-13x (dropped 12 points at 200 yds); my only group shoot resulted in a 100/200 agg of .6032 (no laughing, please
As before, is it realistic to think .25 MOA is attainable with a factory gun?
Attainable, yes. Attainable with all factory rifles, no. Sustainable most likely no. Not to pick on your loading, rifle, or anything.... but from my perspective after reading your set up above what may be some limiting factors.... the 2# trigger, the bullet choice... you might look into trying several brands of 65-70gr bullets, your rests, the crown, and the fit and finish on the stock and forearm, and you might need to try a couple different powder & primer combinations.
As an afterthought..... did you buy this rifle as a "quarter inch all day long" per the original owner? And did he demonstrate this to you?
WD
Hunter
Chasin' the Sunset
Thanks to each of you who shared information via a PM, and to those of you who shared comments above. I look forward to trying the suggested steps, in hopes of one day stumbling into the realm of the quarter-inch group -- at least once.
I finally stumbled into the elusive quarter-inch, five-shot, 100-yd group with my factory rifle! On my second target Saturday I shot a .257 -- a record for me; on my third target I shot a .243 -- another record for me. My shooting buddy also shot a personal best on his third target -- a .215, with a factory gun also. I guess the sun, moon, and stars were aligned just right Saturday; I wonder how long it will be before that happens again.
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D
deadwooddick
Guest
+1 for my 6PPC by SAKO (S/N 098).
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Is the Cooper a pre-owned rifle. If so , how many rds down barrel. I think Cooper rifles have Wison barrels. Don't know anything about Wilson barrels, but I have a friend who owned a Cooper 22-250. This rifle shot fantastic, .3" to .4" @ 200 regularly. After 600 rds the rifle quit. .6 to .9 and larger. Tried new brass, no help..... His father has a Sako 6PPC that will agg in hi two's in good conditions, and get an occasional .1xx" group @100. Don't know if he could produce 1/4 minute agg unless maybe all the stars lined up just right.
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The old 40xbrs that were made by Remington , when Stekl and Walker were there would shoot 1/4 minute.
Some were 6/47 Rem others 222 AND 222 MAGS.
Those cooper and kimbers people talk about are semi custom rifles like the 40X series of years ago.
Some of those Sakos also shot 1/4 minute at times In 222 and 6 ppc .
The 40X br came with a test target with the load. .250 or better was the goal.
Warren Page talked a lot about the 1/4 minute rifle in his book the ACCURATE rifle.
Some were 6/47 Rem others 222 AND 222 MAGS.
Those cooper and kimbers people talk about are semi custom rifles like the 40X series of years ago.
Some of those Sakos also shot 1/4 minute at times In 222 and 6 ppc .
The 40X br came with a test target with the load. .250 or better was the goal.
Warren Page talked a lot about the 1/4 minute rifle in his book the ACCURATE rifle.