XBR Powder

The Good Stuff

Mine is lot 4736 whats the scoop? Do i have the good stuff? LOL!!! If so, just enough to tees me for a while. Its a shame this powder isnt what it was hoped to be. I was really reluctant to get involved with the ppc so early in my rifle career, but after getting pumped up about this super powder i figured it would be a piece of cake. The truth is, even with n133 i dont find it all that troublesome. Actually i have come to really enjoy it! The ppc and 30BR are my favorites and i simply cant get enough. Maybe they will try again with the 8208. I will use what i have to shoot coyotes if it doesnt shoot in my ppc, so it will get used one way or another. Lee

I found the lot # in the archives. ;)

jackie schmidt12-15-2009, 10:46 AM
There are some small stamped numbers on the label, 581 308 4736.

Under the bar code are the numbers 54486 08201.

The usual orange tag on the bottom was not there.......jackie

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IMR 8208 XBR Lot # 4736 Test Session

I found the lot # in the archives. ;)

jackie schmidt12-15-2009, 10:46 AM
There are some small stamped numbers on the label, 581 308 4736.

Under the bar code are the numbers 54486 08201.

The usual orange tag on the bottom was not there.......jackie

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Lot #4736 test session;

jackie schmidt12-13-2009, 07:52 PM
First, the weather man needs to get a new dart board. It was supposed to start out at 50 degrees, then clear up to a bright and sunny 70.

Well, it did start out at 50, overcast, and dreary, and it never got above 54, still overcast and dreary. But, the conditions were really nice, just a gentle ebb and flow. Really a miserable day to be out, but all in all, a good day to shoot.

I first started out with my '08 133, just to see if the Rail, (and I), was on it's game. After a few three shot groups to find the window, I settled in on 30.4 grns with a 65 grn Barts Boat Tail. I then nailed a nice 5-shot "zero" that you can see on the far left, second row up. Average velocity was 3470 fps.

I then switched over to the BRX 8208. I started with a load that Tom Libby recommended, 31.3 grns. While it did not nail a 'zero", you can see it shot pretty well. The average velocity for the five record shots was 3430 fps.

I then decided to drop the load down into another window, a flat 30. grns. The average velocity was 3320, and as you can see, the group opened up. I felt like I hit the condition just right on each shot. Maybe a little cool for this light of a load.

We then decided to up the charge untill it matched the velocity of the 133. This took 31.9 grns. With a slow trickel this was just about 1/2 way up into the neck. The group was really nice, so I decided to try the load again, only weighing each charge. The results were the group you see on the far right. That is really probably about a .040, pretty darned small. The average velocity on both groups was about 3470fps.

I then decided to go back to the 31.3 charge, only weighing each charge. The results were another nice "zero". The velocity was the same as before, but the total spread on this group was only 12 fps.

I then pulled out my Sporter, and put the 31.8 grn load in. I shot a couple of three shot groups that were about .110, then shot a 5 shot group that was a "zero" for the first four. But, since the condition was now the "straight accross right to left", I missed the last condition, (a let-up), and openned it up to about a .180. straight to the right.

Since the conditions, and the temperature, were not going to vary, I decided that I would call it a day and save the rest of the powder for a day that was at least 70 degrees.

So, what did I find out. First, this stuff is more dense than 133. I can barely get the 30.4 grn 133 load in the case, but there is no problem at all getting the XBR in at darned near 32 grns. But, this shows that by weight, it is slower than the '08 133.

It also burned just as clean as 133. I could not tell the difference in the patches that came out after shooting 133 and the BRX.

Also, this stuff meaters VERY WELL. Much more consistant than 133. While I started weighing charges, I could count on the BRX out of my Hensler Measure to be within plus or minus .1 grn. I simply can not do this with 133.

An added note, the Rail Gun has a 23 1/2 inch barrel, the Sporter a 21 1/2. With the same load, I saw an average 70 to 80 fps slower velocity out of the shorter barrel. These two barrels are just about identicle in the land and groove diameter, both .237 4-groove Kriegers that took a .2371 bushing. I guess this shows that some of the powder is still burning at 21 1/2 inches.

I showed that yes, at 52 degrees overcast and dreary, I made the stuff shoot pretty darned good. But, I do not have a clue what will happen when the weather changes. Only time will tell.

That about covers it. This new powder will shoot, and velocity is certainly not a problem. I had zero problems with any pressure signs, the handle on the Diamond Back on the Rail and the Bat on the Sporter lifted really easy on all loads, and the the primers looked nice, with a generous radius still on the outside edge.

I wish the temperature would not have stayed the same all day, I really wanted to see a 20 degree change so I could see how the load was affected. But, it didn't happen, so we settled for what mother nature gave us.

All in all, a good day at the range. Some other shooters with me and watching,, Gary Walters, Vic Smith, Ed Bernabeo, Geramo Villareal, and World Champion Gene Bukys, who had a couple of 375 H&H mags, which are a hoot to shoot...........jackie

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My biggest problem with the XBR is not the speed,it is the coating. That infernal green plastic coating that sets up in the barrel if not fired continuously. That is what is causing the tossed shot, not the heat from the chamber. I don't think it's carbon,I don't think it's a byproduct of combustion,cause no other powder that I have ever shot in my life sets up fouling like this stuff. No other powder that I have ever shot in my life appears to clean up ok and then "bites" on the last wet patch through the barrel. No other powder that I have ever shot in my life blows a plasmic humidity vision distorting blast out the muzzle when it is shot ( now you know why I suspect the recycled little green plastic army men). I can get this stuff to shoot( for a while) with heavy bullets( 70 gr) 30.0 gr of propellent( notice I didn't use the term gunpowder) .010 into the rifling from just touch( no mans land for any other powder) and light neck tension. I have drilled .060's at 100 yds in practice and said to myself "wow, this is cookin", but those little groups will not repeat,You'll follow that up with .3 or bigger with a huge spit factor.Undependable, Agg Killing groups!
Pulldown 8208 is filthy,but it is dependably filthy. N133 is temp sensitive,but it is predictably temp sensitive,Gi322 is boring but it is reliably boring. This XBR is an accident waiting to happen,and it's too bad,cause it " want's to shoot" but the excessive green coating won't set it free.
joel
 
I wonder if the rest of those folks expressing opinions of the powder (good and/or bad) would be nice enough to post the lot# with which they had the good or bad experience? I just got some and it seems to be working ok, but I am just beginning testing loads, in a couple cartridges, mainly the 6BR norma. I'd like to stop wasting my time--if I am. The last I heard about it it was going to be the best super powder ever and was faster than a speeding--well it was gonna be real good...................

If its working OK for you then I don't think you are wasting your time. Also the 6BR has a bit more capacity than the 257TED or the 6PPC
 
This XBR powder is awesome in my 6mmbr(1 in 8 twist) 31.1 gr behind 108 Bergers shoots dots from 100-600, but I cant make it agg. in my 6ppc. I know there are people who can make it agg. in a 6ppc, and maybe I just havent learned how to tune it properly......but for now I have switched back to 133 and my agg.s have improved
JCK
 
Jim,
Your honesty and input is always appreciated,not always agreed upon but appreciated. One does not need to wonder "what you are really thinking".
Since I started making bullets ( not too long ago) I came to the conclusion that jump tunes or jam tunes mask,or make up for the inconsistencies in multi person( husband and wife) volume produced BR bullets.Since that time I have refused to jump or jam a bullet. I want to see how a bullet performs from just touch forward to .005 off jam. If a bullet will not perform in that range it needs to be altered in weight or jacket length or my process or equipment needs to be refined in order to produce more uniform, consistant bullets.With that program in place I found that different powders require different neck tension or seating depth( always into the rifling)in order to perform consistently.This XBR has a gremlin that defies consistency and I truly believe that it lies in the "sticky"nature of it's fouling.Perhaps at some point this sticky-ness will be identified and some product will be introduced to clean it up and keep it at bay while we are shooting,but until then we have better powder options.
I once heard that powder companys used a sugar like substance mixed in with the powder compound and then rinsed out to provide a porosity to the kernal that promoted burning.Safe shipping regulations instuted the non static coating that we have today that did not exist in vintage military powder.I don't know if any of this is true because the powder companys offer no information whatsoever about their product.They could care less about consumers and our curiosity." Here it is,shoot it and shut up" seems to be their mantra. Perhaps this anti -static coating is the problem with XBR,maybe they didn't get all the sugar washed out? Hell,we'll never know,but I for one will not be lining up like sheep to be sheared for IMR's next powder run unless that company "opens up" about their product and manufacturing process. I honestly doubt that they will.
 
My Experience-No Brag Just Fact

I shot some of this powder at home last winter from 15 to 35 degrees. It shot very good. I did not have any fouling problems.

I went to the match in St Louis in February. The temps were from 34 to 47 degrees. I shot 31.5 gr the first day and 32 gr the second day. In the aggs i got a 3rd, two seconds, and a first, winning the 2 gun.

I went to the Cactus in March and the temps were from 53 to 79 degrees. I shot 29.5gr in the Lv100. I shot a 196 215 198 206 and a 228. I came in 13th with a 2094 agg. At the HV100 i went up to 30.0gr after shooting a .404 in the first match. Match 2 with the 30gr was a .116. I came in 26th with a 2468 agg. I shot 30.0 gr the rest of the weekend and came in 13th in the 2 gun with a .2697

I took the same gun i shot in St Louis to the April match.Temps 46 to 61 degrees. I shot 30.0, 30.5, and 31 gr but just couldn't get the gun to shoot consistant. I think i ended up 6th in the 2 gun. The next week at home i tried to get the gun tuned to no avail. I went to screw off the barrel and the stock fell on the floor, problem found Mr Obvious.

Next it's off to Fairchance to the Hog Roast, where i fittingly shot Like A Pig. My FRIDAY GUNS both shot records during practice. Temps were from 76 to 91 degrees. I was in the middle of the range the first day-flags to my left one color, flags to my right another color. The last day i was on bench 59 but the conditions were consistant most of the time. I shot 30.5, 31, and 31.5gr and never really had either gun in tune. I was too stubborn to go back to N133 as i thought i could get the XBR to work. No way, i was 39th in the gun.

My borescope tells me my bbls are staying clean.

So now here i am with a bad taste in my mouth about XBR. I spent a fair amount of time working with the powder, not just talking about it, and i'm going back to N133(at least until i get pissed at it again) I've paid my share of dues in this game, and not being a great expirmenter, i ani't going to fight it. This does not mean the powder won't work, some guys are doing fine with it. Just don't believe everything you read here on this board, including my ramblings. Do your own testing.

Later
Dave
 
I shot two lots in my Dasher today (Sat. 6/12/10). Lot 4798 shot a 95 grain VLD at 3196 fps into approx .250 at 100 yds; while lot 4773 averaged 3150fps with the same bullet and powder measure setting. The second group was over 1/2 inch at 100 yards. These two lots are definitely different. I found the 4798 to shoot better in the 6 PPC also. I hope that Hodgdon gets the inconsistencies wqorked out. James
 
The stuff I have loaded and shot a bit is from lot# 4832; it is not green. It does not appear to foul any more readily in my 6BR than the N135 I have been using. On the other hand, I have not yet found any node, or charge that seems to promise consistency. It is the worst metering powder I have ever tried in my PACT scale/dispenser combo, which usually meters within .1 grain. I threw several charges that were .3 grains over my target and a few that were .2 grains under. About 1/3 were inaccurate in the PACT. Possibly this may account for some of the inconsistency experienced by those folks who do not weigh charges every time? It is the only powder that has ever confused the PACT and required a recalibration halfway through loading 30 cases......I only bought 4 pounds of it..........
 
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I have a bunch, for me, of XBR. I have had it shoot good and bad, but have not found the right combination. But there is one thing I observed today at the Luther HV match. Larry Sharnhorst kicked some serious ass with it. Like a small group of .187 at 200. Those of you that have shot at Luther know what the "Winds of Luther" can do to you. How the heck he found those holes in the wind is beyond me, as are a lot of other things in this sport. Larry took home a pickup load of wood today. Great shooting Larry, and all the othes that got those wooden plaques.

Donald.

Donald
 
Larry is the man anyway! I think he could agg benchmark if he wanted to. I love watching him shoot, and his flag set up is something to behold. Larry is a good man and it makes me smile when i see his name at the top, and thats most of the time. Lee
 
For Gods sake Lee, don't pump Larry up too much, he'll be walking around like he's 5 foot tall.

Larry is the man anyway! I think he could agg benchmark if he wanted to. I love watching him shoot, and his flag set up is something to behold. Larry is a good man and it makes me smile when i see his name at the top, and thats most of the time. Lee
 
Larry is pretty darned sharp. I guess the rest of us simply have not found what this stuff likes. Hot. Mild. In Between. ............jackie
 
I think Larry shot Benchmark last year and kicked a lot of butts. I do believe the man could load horse hokey and make it shoot. He was all smiles Saturday as he took home a ton of awards. I just wish I had asked what lot he was shooting.

Donald
 
Dave,

If Larry is below the radar, is that when you have the radar detector on the dash or on the bumper? I think Larry shoots so well because he sees the condition we don’t see below the flags.
 
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