Wind and Hot Air…

Joe

I do seem to wear a scope out. I click it as close as i can get it.. Here is what i do alot and you proably have never heard of this.. I like to hold low right on a target. Four or five oclock.. So even if i have a wind from left to right i shoot my gun in for it..meaning i hold the same for any wind... Les.. That is good advise they gave you.. Dont shoot that let up or calm if you dont have to.. Just waite if you can... Harry.:):):)
 
harrydeneen said:
I do seem to wear a scope out. I click it as close as i can get it.. Here is what i do a lot and you probably have never heard of this.. I like to hold low right on a target.
Click to expand...

Hi Harry, When you say "hold low right on a target" I assume, talking a IR target, you hold low right on the ten ring?

Al :)
 
Thanks Fred for A Myth I have not heard before. (You were kidding – right?)
In my earlier post I did not dwell on the Myth that the wind departs an angular deflection to the bullet. Once the bullet is in the surrounding air mass it will move with the air mass. If the bullet is displaced 2 inches in the 1st 25 yards and the wind stops it will NOT continue on that ‘course’ and be 4 inches off at the target.

A typical wind of less then 10 fps is not going to deflect a projectile going 1050 fps or for that matter 500 fps. Now maybe if you get below 100 fps the wind might cause the bullet to start ‘weathervaning’ and turn into the wind. :rolleyes:
(For the sake of brevity 'Shear' is not factored in)
 
Doug give up on your theory ! No Myth here.
You are the only person I know that believes in your theory.
Enough said.
Fred K
 
Doug said:
If the bullet is displaced 2 inches in the 1st 25 yards and the wind stops it will NOT continue on that ‘course’ and be 4 inches off at the target.
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Doug,
I reckon that depends on who is flying the bullet. I can't recall being able to correct it's direction. Not a pilot either, could that have something to do with it? :confused:

D R
 
Hi Jacked

Doug:
We need to get some help and capture the hijackers that are taking over my bullets, then flying them south.
 
Fred, I believe you have found the proper name for what's labeled as a bad round. Hi-Jacked. Here I thought it was a conspiracy the whole time. :)
 
Changed my thinking

Joe:
For years, I thought it was the ammo manufacturers that were paying someone minimum wage, to put 5 bad rounds in every box. Thanks Doug for setting me straight.
 
Hey wait a minute!

An object pushed in any direction will continue in that direction until offset by another force.

These are not my words.

Doug, would you kindly send me another copy of the Crawfish results. I lost that fancy USB SD card somewhere between Valdosta and home.
 
Wilbur said:
An object pushed in any direction will continue in that direction until offset by another force.
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AMEN.

I'm just a dumb old farmer but for what it's worth comparing the flight of an air plane to the flight of a bullet has one major flaw. The plain is under power the bullet is not. I would think the reaction to a side wind would be different. So, until our bullets have a prop or a little jet engine strapped to them I'll subscribe to the "First Flag" theory. Sorry Doug.

Now boys, watch ALL those flags and don't worry about who's has the best theory. :)

Al
 
Wilbur I emailed you the results.

Just for the heck of it I did a little search on wind ballistics and came up with the following in Wikipedia of all places. (I put some of the key words in bold)

"Wind has a range of effects, the first being the effect of making the bullet deviate to the side. From a scientific perspective, the "wind pushing on the side of the bullet" is not what causes wind drift. What causes wind drift is drag. Drag makes the bullet turn into the wind, keeping the centre of air pressure on its nose. This causes the nose to be cocked (from your perspective) into the wind, the base is cocked (from your perspective) "downwind." So, (again from your perspective), the drag is pushing the bullet downwind making bullets follow the wind. A somewhat less obvious effect is caused by head or tailwinds. A headwind will slightly increase the relative velocity of the projectile, and increase drag and the corresponding drop. A tailwind will reduce the drag and the bullet drop. In the real world pure head or tailwinds are rare, since wind seldom is constant in force and direction and normally interacts with the terrain it is blowing over."

Ref.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/External_ballistics

This definition is rather simple but does point out that the wind ‘pushing’ on the side of the bullet does not cause wind drift but rather causes the bullet to ‘follow the wind’ which is what I was saying in my previous airplane analogy.

I would be interested If anyone can come up with anything other than Rumors or Myths to support the Myth of ‘the wind at the bench’.
Until then I Rest my Case.
 
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If someone has indoor range or power at their range you could run this test.

Put a fairly large diameter house fan about 10-15 feet in front of and several feet to side of your bench blowing at 3 o'clock in line with your bullet path. If you have a 3 speed fan, so much the better. I wish we had power at the range so I could test this myself. You could even turn it a little (e.g. 4:30) to affect bullet a little longer. This test "could" bring out some facts.

Much thanks to anyone with this capability and lwho lets us know the result.

Some of you even have a range at HOME.

Regis
 
Bringing it back

I'm almost sure that Al didn't intend to start a discussion of external ballistics but rather a practical look a dealing with wind as it applies to target shooting. No flag is more important when the difference between winning and losing is a plug and three referees struggling to make a decision.

The whole deal is based on watching the flags and developing a hypothesis with sighters. "When the flags do that, and I do this, the bullet will hit there". All that remains is proving your hypothesis by completing a 25 question test.
 
To me wind flags seem like a "black art". I now can see the importance i have another question if i may. As a Novice -at first i am thinking watching 5 flags "gee how many conditions is that going to show" and how would i ever remember them all??

Now i'm thinking maybe just remember 1 condition shown by the flags -fire a couple of sighters and get ready. I guess if that condition fails to come back on a card, pick a new condition and fire a couple more sighters?? Am i getting close? thanks joe:)
 
Hey Harry

You wrote - "On tough days there may only be one good condition to shoot with a very small ten or twelve inch window.."

What do you mean by ten or 12 inch window?
 
Joe -- you are heading in the right direction (no pun intended). Find the predominant condition, shoot some sighters and either click in or hold off, and shoot during that condition. You also need plan B and C and maybe D.

Watch out for the "gotchas" -- the sudden wind shift just as you pull the trigger. One technique is to watch the other shooter's flags to your left and right. Sometimes you can see the wind change coming across the field.

What you thought was the predominant condition, may be replaced by another condition for much of the time you have to shoot your target. Be prepared to jump back to the sighters and change your POA.

One very useful feedback source for a wind shift is the other shooters. If you hear a round being fired followed immediately by a "#&*@%$!!!!" -- you might hold back a few seconds to see if a wind shift is crossing the field. :D

Michael
 
Wilbur said:
I'm almost sure that Al didn't intend to start a discussion of external ballistics but rather a practical look a dealing with wind as it applies to target shooting. No flag is more important when the difference between winning and losing is a plug and three referees struggling to make a decision.

The whole deal is based on watching the flags and developing a hypothesis with sighters. "When the flags do that, and I do this, the bullet will hit there". All that remains is proving your hypothesis by completing a 25 question test.
Click to expand...

Thank you Wilbur! :D

Al
 
Today 09:08 AM
Wilbur Bringing it back

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"When the flags do that, and I do this, the bullet will hit there".

Sometimes!


Today 09:50 AM
mistermike Joe --


What you thought was the predominant condition, may be replaced by another condition for much of the time you have to shoot your target. Be prepared to jump back to the sighters and change your POA.



Michael


Conditions normally hold true until the first record target.


Joe,

With five flags it's not unusual to see five different condtions. That's normally a good time not to shoot. That said, if the wind is only 1-2 mph, you may be able to shoot thru it. Sighters will tell. I still would rather take my chances with that than a dead calm. There is no such thing as a dead calm, just stuff happening you can't see.

Ken
 
Try this

If you have a swimming pool or pond available, try placing a set of flags around the perimeter. You will notice air current movement on the surface of the water that the flags do not always pick up. This is why you sighter's are so important through out a target. Then Practice. Practice, Practice over wind flags every chance you get.
 
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